Anyone with a T870 Mulcher

[fishfactor]

We just added a CAT 299D XHP with a Fecon Head. Going to add another machine in the next few weeks.

Bobcat is all over us for it to be a T870. We have had wonderful service out of our T320. 7 years with no unexpected failures running a mulcher 90% of the time. I found some bad stories about the T870 from a few years back, but nothing good or bad recently. Did they get the bugs worked out?

The CAT has around 18 more hydraulic HP on paper, and weighs less (I think around 1200 lbs).

 

[05rammer]

I demoed a t870 with a mulcher and my opinion is that it is just physically to big, the tracks stick out to far passed the cutter head and I was hitting trees with the tracks to much. I think it is at least 6in wider than the 299d.

 

[yellowdogsvc]

We just added a CAT 299D XHP with a Fecon Head. Going to add another machine in the next few weeks.

Bobcat is all over us for it to be a T870. We have had wonderful service out of our T320. 7 years with no unexpected failures running a mulcher 90% of the time. I found some bad stories about the T870 from a few years back, but nothing good or bad recently. Did they get the bugs worked out?

The CAT has around 18 more hydraulic HP on paper, and weighs less (I think around 1200 lbs).

Why not look at T770? Should be virtually the same performance flow-wise, hp is real close with same motor and torque specs I think and weight and width is less on T770 with plenty of lift.

Cat looks better on paper, true, but in the field my old 272c looked better on paper than my s330 and the s330 out cut it as does my s750 using same head.

 

[fishfactor]

The 770 is something to consider as well. I just know of 2 guys that had the 870 and both got rid of them not long after they got them because they had so many problems. This was a few years ago, so maybe they got the bugs out.

 

[matt15194]

For those of you who don't know me I am Matthew. I am not new here I just chose to listen more then I talk. Given the request for information on mulching With the 870 I just had to post since I have extensive experience with both the 770 and 870 machines as well as the PT110 and 299DXHP. I also have plenty of experience with the older RC100, PT100F, 287c and 297C machine. My 770 and 870 both have around 2000 hours each with at least 75% mulching time.

Ok here is the good bad and the ugly. Overall the bobcat machines show attention to detail from the design engineers on a level that I have not seen from others. But I will say that the 299dXHP series 2 machine has picked up a number of details from Bobcat. The 870 is the easiest machine I have to work on with out question due to the larger frame size. Debris will rarely jam between the track and the frame because of the width. Cleaning around the coolers is easier due to extra space. Changing track drive hoses can be done without a track job unlike the 770. I will stop there the list of things that are easier to repair goes on and on. The 870 is the undisputed champion when it comes to heavy lifting jobs of all CTL machines and I use this extra capacity daily. Mine often runs an over sized 20inch feller buncher that weighs almost 4000 lbs empty and has been amazingly productive with it. My two machines are a year apart and bobcat appears to have been very responsive with fixing problems. I have found a number of factory improvements for the 770 which is about one year newer then the 870. Bobcat at the national engineering level has been responsive to questions or comments we have had. I exchanged a number of emails relating to questions I had with them before we got the first 870. These machines have been the most reliable machines I have had in the last 7 years of full time mulching. They have had their issues though. There have been times that both of my machines have run for months without ever leaving the field for repairs, a mile stone I have never reached with other brands. However we have been guilty of running machine without a/c on occasion.(bring lots of Gatorade on those days and plan to go home looking like I was born of a different race) And I will freely admit that duck tape has been used more then once to hold my machines together until something else broke and I would fix everything I could at the same time. I have never had a track drive motor failure on my bobcat machines. all other machines have had track drive failures on me except the PT110 but lets just say they never earned the opportunity to fail.

Ok now for the ugly part. Both the 870 and 770 are very lacking in the engine torque area. both are around 210 foot pounds. The 870 is governed to a higher rpm and this does make a difference. For comparison the PT110 and 299DXHP both are in the 310 foot pound range. The hydros on both of mine max out at 4000 psi not the rated 3700 and no I have never adjusted them however there are some "other productivity enhancing adjustments that will make a notable difference" but the hydros are still weak. And no I will not explain the "productivity enhancing adjustments". Sadly these machines are only modest performers when powering the head. The gear pumps lose flow as the pressure increases making it tough to make production goals when in the heavy cutting. If bobcat would put out an engine and hydraulic package comparable to the PT110 and 299DXHP they would dominate in the world of CTL mulching and would be my machine of choice but bobcat refuses to move away from the common engine and hydraulic package they use in all large frame machines. This never will make sense to me since Bobcat does make the best forestry guarding package IMHO. I have considered gutting the 870 and putting in a stronger engine and hydro package but I haven't the time and resources for a project of that type much less all the down time.

I can tell you that my 870 and 770 have had serious issues at times but overall they have putt less grey hair on my head compared to the horrid nightmares from **** that have been my experiences with the PT110 And 299DXHP. I will not go into to detail here as this thread is about the bobcat machines but I will say that my experiences make Red prospector's look like a walk in the park. Like all machine when mulching be prepared to have issues and make modifications as necessary since I can promise you none of these machines were ever prototyped in an operation like mine that puts 2000 hours a year on machines mulching. And before you ask yes I said 2000 hours per year mulching and no that does not include all the time spent turning wrenches and getting baths of hydraulic oil

Sadly I have reduced my bobcat fleet and parted with the 770 and am praying that round two with 299DXHP goes better then the first. This decision goes against my better judgment but was based on productivity not reliability. If the second one goes as bad as the first I may exit the mulching business altogether one man can only take so much pain and suffering.

 

[fishfactor]

Thanks for the reply. That's was some good reading.

 

[Cooter Brown]

Nice read. Hope round 2 goes better

 

[PLMLLC]

I am fairly new to the mulching business and did crazy research getting involved in it. The width of the 870 turned me off from it. Being wider than the cutter makes no sense. So we were looking at the 770 against the 299D XHP and all the numbers added up to CAT. The biggest thing for me though came down to service. The Bobcat dealer here is backed up with all their repairs. They don't have a field tech and are open 8-5. CAT has everything for service and here is an example that happened on Thursday for me. I had a drive motor sensor error come on my monitor while mulching at 4:30 in the afternoon. The job is 100 miles from home and my local dealer. I called the dealer closest to the project and they walked me through to figure what was going on. Earlier in the day a stick got lodged between the track and frame damaging the wires for the sensor and they finally broke clean off. That was at 4:45 that we figured that out. I got loaded up and pulled into the dealer at 6:09. I unloaded pulled into the shop they switched out a new sensor did the calibration and I was loaded back up at 7. Headed back to the job and was mulching again at 8. That wouldn't have happened with Bobcat and that is why I run CAT. They keep the parts stocked and the techs available to keep you running. That location keeps a tech working at the shop until 10 pm every night and Saturdays. That is the biggest thing. Every machine at some point is going to break especially with the added brutality of mulching you are going to go down so for me it was who is going to help keep me running. CAT it is! Just my thoughts

 

[fishfactor]

I am fairly new to the mulching business and did crazy research getting involved in it. The width of the 870 turned me off from it. Being wider than the cutter makes no sense. So we were looking at the 770 against the 299D XHP and all the numbers added up to CAT. The biggest thing for me though came down to service. The Bobcat dealer here is backed up with all their repairs. They don't have a field tech and are open 8-5. CAT has everything for service and here is an example that happened on Thursday for me. I had a drive motor sensor error come on my monitor while mulching at 4:30 in the afternoon. The job is 100 miles from home and my local dealer. I called the dealer closest to the project and they walked me through to figure what was going on. Earlier in the day a stick got lodged between the track and frame damaging the wires for the sensor and they finally broke clean off. That was at 4:45 that we figured that out. I got loaded up and pulled into the dealer at 6:09. I unloaded pulled into the shop they switched out a new sensor did the calibration and I was loaded back up at 7. Headed back to the job and was mulching again at 8. That wouldn't have happened with Bobcat and that is why I run CAT. They keep the parts stocked and the techs available to keep you running. That location keeps a tech working at the shop until 10 pm every night and Saturdays. That is the biggest thing. Every machine at some point is going to break especially with the added brutality of mulching you are going to go down so for me it was who is going to help keep me running. CAT it is! Just my thoughts

We decided on another 299. Power to weight was the main factor.

Our dealer wrapped the hydraulic hoses and the speed sensor you are talking about with coil type hose wrap to help protect the sensor. It's still possible to catch it with a stick, but wrapping it with the hoses adds a lot of strength and reduces the exposed area. They took off the cover where the hoses enter the frame, and started inside wrapping the lower hoses together, and the upper hoses with the sensor. Put the cover back on.

 

[matt15194]

Plmllc I am glad you are happy with your cat dealer. Yours is clearly far better then the two cat dealers I deal with. My last field service call took them two weeks to send a tech out. There shop opens at 8am and turns into a ghost town at 4:50pm with the phones turned off and all. Field mechanics once onsite will work as late a necessary and have worked with them as late as 11PM to get a machine up and running. I do have the service managers mobile numbers and they will do their best to talk me through an issue after hours. My first 299D sat at the dealer for months while they made up every excuse in the book and still didn't fix the machine because they didn't follow my instructions. But then again what do I know I only have over 10000 hours of mulching experience all on CTL machines. By the way they claim they waited months for cat parts to come in. Thus why I have grown to bitterly hate my local cat dealers that have screwed me every time I have tried to do business with them. I wont discuss over billing, double billing rentals or billing for parts never delivered my blood pressure cant take it according to my doctor. Funny how it is always "a computer problem" and takes months to get straight.

Your case with the track drive sensors is the perfect example of why bobcats are more reliable. Cat thinks it is a good idea to run loose exposed and unprotected wiring to the drive motors. I can only imagine the total warranty claims that come from this foolish design. Wiring is always getting damaged making the machine throw codes and pesky alarms going off. Wait until you have to run that thing for a few days with the alarm going off because the sensor is back ordered. You will hear that alarm in your sleep for days. I suppose for cat this is an improvement over the design in the C model machines since the D models will continue to operate with a damaged sensor and the C models would refuse to move often times and become dangerous to operate due to erratic behavior. It is so much fun having come very close to several life threatening accidents with the machine makes abrupt turns without warning. I came close to losing my machine in one river, two irrigation canals and one sulfuric acid containment pond. All due to problems in with the sensors or wiring going to them. By the way if your d model machine acts up disconnect both sensors and the machine will use the pump pressures to regulate track drives instead of the sensors. but you will still have constant codes and alarms every time you move and this only works on D models. Interesting how cat never addressed this on C model and has only partly addressed it on D models. Sure does seem like a lot of unnecessary liability and warranty claims to me.

This is were bobcat excels. Bobcat tried using track drive sensors. There sensors were well guarded and the wiring was encased in flexible steel conduit meaning much greater reliability. However bobcat found they still had failures. bobcat rewrote the software to function off of pump pressure and not the track drive sensor and released a software update. I had one of the earliest T870 before the up date. When I finally did damage the sensor all it did was give a low level error code. Machine continued to operate with out issue. Called dealer with code, dealer explained how it worked and that that is was safe to continue operating. I believe dealer updated software when machine was at shop for other repairs and code is now gone. I believe with my 770 being one year newer it already had the software update and has never had drive sensor codes. Interesting how my machines were one year apart and bobcat had already addressed the issue. I have 4000 hours of bobcat time and not one minute of down time due to track drive sensors and on top of that my bobcat machines never tried to kill me. Wish I could say the same for cat machines.

plmllc I wish you well with your machine sounds like you have a good dealer which is half the battle. I Hope your experiences will be much better then mine. So far round two for me with 299DXHP has been good but it is still to early to tell.

Fish How many Hours do you have on your Bobcat T320