Anyone Shying Away from the Complexity of New Equipment

[Industrial Toys]

I was just curious if anyone has the money to purchase a new piece of powered equipment, but is considering used instead, on account of:

complexity and computers, the inability to repair your own equipment (without a laptop and proprietary software)

pollution control equipment

unproven and untried technology

possible issues, unknown costs and frustration

vastly increased basic cost of ownership

Was there a cutoff point, where things were still sensable? Out mid 90s JD has little electronics. The engine is a good old diesel with a mechanical injector pump. But auxiliary things like the PTO has electronic control. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you have to try it thirty eight times! That (JD) brand should be quality, but they have left me with no faith that a tractor totally run by computers with dozens of connectors and harnesses will be any **** good at all.

A friend of mine recently bought a fairly new excavator. It had issues, and in desperation he called the manufacturer in to repair the issues. They sent some guy (with a laptop) who clearly knew less then my friend about the machine, and billed him thousands for the service call! Plus, he never fixed anything! This just seems like a trend all over the place!

 

[D7E]

Absoluteley .For us the newer and more electronic it gets the the more frequent and more expensive breakdowns become plus you are completeley at the dealers mercy . The majority of our machinery is early 90's where it had just enough to be comfortable but not enough to be a problem , Any thing i buy new i like to keep simple , standard trans , manual remotes etc and run them longer .

 

[chim]

After hearing about the "Tier 4" engines that were coming I bought a new tractor in 2012. It could very well be that the Tier 4 are better tractors than mine, but it was the uncertainty that helped push it along.

The decision on the type and size of tractor and accessory items was based on what I felt I needed / wanted. For example, HST was important. I had one gear tractor and two HST's before this one and the HST was ideal for most of the work mine does. I didn't opt for cruise control. I had cruise on two tractors for the past 20 years and never used it, so why pay extra?

 

[toddler]

If the Tier 4 engines weren't replacing the 3's, I would have waited 6 more months before buying my tractor. But it isn't the tech that I didn't like, it was the 1-2K bump and potentially higher maintenance requirements.
So it did affect my decision.

 

[IXLR8]

Tractor engines are now getting the technology that have been in diesel cars for the last ten years. I hope the tractor engine manufactures learned from the mistakes made by the car makers... but who knows. The electronics brings cleaner air and better fuel economy. It also brings more complications, cost more and limits the owners ability to diagnose and repair the equipment. I chose to buy a tier 3 machine to avoid the cost and complications of the tier 4 machines. There are some nice features only available with the computer controlled tier 4 machines, but they are just not worth the cost and added complications that come with them to me. So yes, I shyed away from the complex new machines. I am planning on this tractor being my last.

 

[RKJeepXJ]

I bought my tractor 6-12 months before I really needed to in order to get a Teir 3 machine. I also purchased HST over the electronically controlled shuttle shift option to aviod the computer and clutch complexity that comes with the shuttle shift.

 

[3930dave]

Plus side - this situation props up, and probably elevates the value of older equipment. A bonus for us that own older tractors.

The attraction for the manufacturer is pretty obvious. They'd sooner sell you a big dollar electronic control module, than a basic mechanical part.

IMO, govt has a vested interest in seeing this added complexity. Meaning aside from the direct tax revenue.

Look at the automobile market. Automobiles had become pretty reliable, to the point where a simple design could operate for a really long time, assuming basic maintenance being done. Add Complexity, and Presto - Cars are getting scrapped now because they need a $1000+ control module, for a secondary system - like body control.

The govt has an interest in turning vehicle fleets over faster. Direct taxes is one reason, but it also creates a faster flow through for newer generations of "pollution" technology.

Tractors should be a bit different, as they traditionally have held their Utility value better/longer than cars. We'll see how this plays out, starting in about 5 years or so....

Read a trucking article recently. Small fleets are walking away from late model highway tractor leases, and volunteering a $50,000 peace offering - you can imagine how bad it has to be in terms of repair costs and downtime for a small trucking company to do that.

Rgds, D.

 

[bigbull338]

i just traded up in hp in july for a new teir 3 tractor because i dont know that much about the teir 4 tractors.an to avoid the big price jump.but that didnt do me no good lolol.as i just ironed out a deal for my brother to buy a new teir 4 105hp tractor.an i heard some rumbing of what that teir 4 filter will cost.but not really worried about it as it needs changing at 1800hrs.i doubt if we put 75 hours a year on the tractor anyway.

 

[Red Horse]

I hear you. Now this is my 58 year old B -61X. Ok so it has a 79 Maxidyne for power, but that motor isn't a lot different than the original motor-just a few different things that let you make power in the low end. In any case, I wonder just what it would cost to keep a new "state of art" heavy truck running for the next 58 years?

By the way-no "antique" plates on this ol girl-commercial tags and it still goes out every now and then to pull a load.

But guess what guys-I guess the best we can do is keep the mice out of our barns so they don't chew a wire and bring all the technology to a crashing halt!:laughing:

 

[Travelover]

It is frustrating. The computer controls in both my high efficiency furnace and washing machine died within a couple of years. Use less energy, but ultimately cost more to own. Ditto with the car. The Scangage can call out most of the engine codes, but doesn't work for the ABS, for instance.