Anyone have experience installing closed ...

[smfcpacfp]

cell foam insulation. It appears to give you the R value per inch (around 7) of any insulation.

Can it be applied directly to the metal siding of a pole building (which appears to be the case)?

Can it be applied to a thickness of 5"? It appears that you might have to do it in multiple layers.

The pole building I recently completed is going to have a 15' by 24' workshop area which is pretty small, but adequate. I was going to use propane heat, but given how small the area is, a contractor friend of mine suggested baseboard electric heat which would be simpler to install and involve no cutting or propane storage, etc. I figured if I insulated the heck out it, (R - 35 in the walls and 3 feet or so of blown in insulation in the ceiling) it might not be that costly to heat during the portion of the day that I would use it. I couldn't imagine using it more than 20 hours a week during our 6 months of heating.

I do live in an extremely cold part of the country with 40 plus sub zero days being the norm.

 

[dex3361]

I used closed foam (extruded polystyrene) when I built my house about 20 years ago. I put 1" around the outside of my foundation before I backfilled. I also placed 1" on the ground before I poured my basement floor. The main point was to keep down thermal transfer. I was a good move because my floor is close to the same temp as the air summer or winter. It has made the downstairs comfy, no dampness or mold or moisture for 23 years. The only issue in a garage would be flammability. Will this be covered or left exposed?

 

[EddieWalker]

I was considering it for my shop ceiling, and spent some time researching it. The closed cell works better then the open cell, but it's also more expensive. There are several kits that you can buy to spray it yourself, but when I figured out the price compared to what it would cost to hire it done, it's allot cheaper to hire it out.

I still haven't started insulating my ceiling yet, but I have decided on going with fiberglass bats. It's the cheapest way to go for me with the results that I'm looking for. I'll have to install stringers to support the fiberglass between my trusses, but that's pretty basic.

Run the numbers, consider the usage and it's pretty hard to beat fiberglass.

Eddie

 

[MotorSeven]

For a steel building/structure/trailer that you don't want or have room for conventional walls, it is incredible stuff. My apt in my quonset shop has about 2" and we heat with a ceramic cube heater. It is expensive, so you have to decide if it is worth it for you. Like Eddie said, it is the same or cheaper to hire out than to buy the DIY kit. I would do it again in a heartbeat and I would spray the shop side if I had the $.

RD

 

[smfcpacfp]

Thanks guys, I will be looking for someone to do the job for me.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Spraying directly onto the metal siding will pretty much eliminate the condensation that occours in a metal clad building. The temperature needs to be in the correct range for proper adhearance. There is a law of deminishing returns with both open and closed cell foam insulation in regards to the thickness. Fine Homebuilding not to long ago had a good write up about this.

Regarding electric heat, I had a barn in PA with just under 700sq ft heated with electric heat. The rooms measured two at 12x12, one at 12x24 and one at 8x12. The concrete floor was not insulated but the framed six inch walls and eight inch ceiling was. All rooms were dry walled. They were on the south facing side and the barn had a sixteen foot deep overhang with minimal wind loading. Along with running 14 90 watt heated water buckets for the horses and energy efficient lighting, my electric bill soared to 225-250 dollars in the winter as opposed to about 25 in the summer even with an 80 gallon electric water heater.
Rather than baseboard, I used an inwall type of heater unit to minimize errant damage.

 

[tlbuser]

Locally, it's cheaper and easier to get blow-in cellulose for the walls and ceiling.
My experience with baseboard electric wasn't good. Have you considered radiant or a ceiling mounted hot dawg type instead? The regulator from a bbq grill will operate either type, just find one with pipe fittings on both sides. You could use small BBq size tanks, rv size or the 100lb. cylinders What do you have not being used during the winter months? The 100's are not as easy to tote around though. A 35000 btu heater will consume ~1 gallon of propane per hour of use.

 

[westbrooklawn]

I've always seen figures that say 1 gallon of propane provides around 93,000 btu's. If this is correct, then a 35k heater would run for a little over 2.5 hours on a gallon.

 

[tlbuser]

Yea, a few variables to throw in. Using a smaller bottle and longer run time can create an "icing over" condition leading to the appearance of more gas usage. The liquid needs time to vaporize to become usable and the smaller bottles have less head-space producing smaller amounts of vapor. If run for 2-3 hours no issues arise. After that, the vapor might not keep up with demand. Given time to re acclimate the vapor recovers and the appliance can be used again. Therefore, in a situation like this it's safer to say ~1 gal./hr.
A 35000 btu appliance connected to a 20 lb. bbq style bottle will be sufficient for most casual users giving ~10 hours of non-constant use (assuming 4.5 gallons of liquid, some refill companies puts less in theirs). A typical bbq grill would average longer because they are rarely used wide open, all the time. A propane engine will not run properly on a small tank, they require at least two 20 Lb. tanks in a parallel connection.