Anybody here have much experience with either 3 point or tow backhoe?

[etpm]

When I asked in my original post about 3 point backhoes I was thinking that the hoe would be connected to a subframe. But I should have realized that a 3 point system would probably just be connected to the 3 point mount.
So, to clarify, which I should have done in the first place, I am looking for folks who have experience with a subframe mounted backhoe. A backhoe which may use the 3 point system to assist mounting the subframe mounted unit. Do these even exist? I thought that was how they all worked. But I obviously don't know.
I know that narrow buckets are available for my Case but that doesn't solve the problem of the actual size of the Case. It is really too big to get into many places I need ditches. What I have been doing in some cases is to park the hoe perpendicular to the ditch. Then I dig from both ends of the ditch. I still have to fig out the center section by hand though because of the width of the Case, It's a good thing the boom on the Case swings just over 180 degrees.
A hoe mounted to the back of or towed by and stabilized by my YM2310 would be able to get into these tight spaces. But it would need to be able to do the work. Even if slowly it would still need to do the work.
I think a little tracked excavator would be ideal. Except. I rented one and it was a real workhorse. Even though rubber tracked, and even though I was as careful as my limited experience allowed, I still tore up the lawn and other landscaped areas that I had spent a lot of time getting nice. And even pretty beat up small ones are too expensive for me. They are really expensive. Even importing one yourself from China.
Anyway, I keep seeing backhoes on the back of tractors as small as mine, and I would really like to converse with some folks who have experience with tractor mounted tow behind excavators. With thumbs.
Thanks Again,
Eric

 

[California]

I keep seeing pictures of 3 point backhoes on tractors the approximate size as my Yanmar YM2310.

So, does anyone here have any experience with these small machines? I know they will be much slower than my Case and I can live with that. But can they do actual work in rocky soil without extreme frustration?

A 3 point hitch type would be shorter, easier to transport, and have a little more stability side to side. Or would it? I mean the sideways stability.

The universal advice is "Don't put a 3 point backhoe on a tractor that wasn't designed for it. You will tear the back end out of the transmission case".

That said, this 3 point backhoe on my Yanmar YM240 (1980) was sold back then as OEM by both Kubota and Yanmar dealers (just different paint).

I've use it since 2007 for removing stumps in clean soil, with only roots as obstacles. And occasional ditching. At 750 lbs its all the YM240 3-point wants to lift. Adding a thumb wouldn't work to lift rocks. It's designed to not stress the tractor so it can just lift a bucket of earth when fully extended. The bucket curl is the only high-force part. it's useless as a crane, I've tried.

When I ran new water mains I rented a Ditch Witch. It fit in the tight corridor behind the barn and cut through a dense field of Redwood tree roots like a jumbo chainsaw.

Rocks? Good luck! Seems to me renting a mini excavator is the only solution to work in a tight space.

 

[mikester]

I had a subframe mount BH on my NH TC55DA with a 14" bucket. Climbing on and off the tractor constantly gets old fast and is a PITA if you have experience using a real TLB with a swivel seat. I sold it and bought the M59TLB with no regrets. Gets into spots my Case580 couldn't and the FEL has surprisingly grunt comparable to my Case. It's still a limited machine. The BH is just OK due to the lack of hydraulic flow compared to the Case or a miniX. I would never recommend or buy an AG tractor with BH again. The tow behind units are even more useless IMHO.

Get a mini-x with thumb if you need to do a lot of trenching in tight spaces. I wouldn't look at any machine under 5 ton if you want to deal with rocks or tree roots.

 

[Diggin It]

So, to clarify, which I should have done in the first place, I am looking for folks who have experience with a subframe mounted backhoe. A backhoe which may use the 3 point system to assist mounting the subframe mounted unit. Do these even exist? I thought that was how they all worked. But I obviously don't know.

Mine uses the BH hydraulics. Back in, hook up the hoses, use the levers to position by moving the outriggers and dipper/bucket, settle the unit into the two lower cradles, secure the two large upper pins. Removal is the opposite.

Yes, on and off to switch seats or positions is a pain, but a lot less than using a shovel.

 

[ptsg]

3 pt backhoes tend to cause this like this:

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However, on this side of the pond, 3 pt backhoes are the only option if one really wants a backhoe, but these are mounted slightly different. Two additional top links mounted to another solid place of the tractor are added by the dealers to help spread the stresses through different parts of the tractor. These backhoes also run it's own pump and run somewhere around 2000 to 2350 PSI, while most tractors can put out around 2600 PSI at the remotes, this also helps reducing the stress on the tractor.

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[bdhsfz6]

Over the years, I've had some experience with a small tow behind, sub frame mount, 3pt mount backhoes and more recently a mini ex. By far, the mini ex was the most versatile. It can get into places other machines can't. it's reach and 360 degree swivel make most jobs go quickly. The down side, like many track machines, they do some surface damage. I don't need the mini much so I rent when I do. I minimize lawn damage by planking or using sheets of OSB.

On the opposite end, the tow behind I used to rent was all but useless unless digging in sand. It was far too light to do any serious digging.

Back in 1980, I had a Kubota B7100 with a B670 sub frame hoe and used it for many years digging in the hard pan on my acreage. I used a small 9" bucket to deal with the tough soil. Although the B7100 was small and maneuverable, the digging was painfully slow due to the small bucket. The sub frame was part of the hoe and had to be removed along with the implement. It was difficult to line up when reinstalling and often took two people.

I eventually traded the B7100 for an L3010. I couldn't afford the Kubota hoe at the time so I bought a used Woods 3 pt mount hoe. I don't remember the model but it was an earlier version of their B75. I used it to dig foundation footings for a couple of building projects and quickly discovered it wasn't stable. Iron straps were used to strengthen the 3 pt hitch but there was still enough play in the linkage to make accurate digging difficult. The hoe also had a tendency to throw the rear of the tractor around and it was a nightmare to take off and install. After using it for less than a year, I broke the tractor top link bracket. Luckily, it didn't damage the transmission housing and was a fairly easy repair. After that incident, I traded the tractor and hoe.

The only thing I liked about the Woods was it used a PTO mounted hydraulic pump. It could be set to a higher pressure than the tractor hydraulics would supply which made digging easier in difficult spots.

I used a BH90 hoe behind my old Kubota L3430 for a few years and now a BH92 with my L6060 and MX5800 tractors. These are sub frame mounts but the frame remains on the tractor. The hoe is attached with two large pins and the implement is far easier to put on and take off. The down side to this style mount is, it does reduce ground clearance by a few inches.

IMO, the sub frame mount is the most versatile for general use. For certain jobs though, I still rent the mini ex.

Hope this helps.

 

[rademamj1]

Now your asking the correct question. A subframe mounted backhoe is the only way to go for longterm safety and equipment reliability. I have used my Kioti KB2475L backhoe for culvert installation and some minor excavation tasks. It's subframe mounted and the backhoe hydraulics plug directly into rear ports.

The subframe has been precisely constructed by Kioti for the tractor, with only 1/4" of play between the backhoe subframe mount and the tractor frame. When properly mounted and locked, It all acts as a single piece of digging machinery regardless of the task involved. So that torsional stress during digging tilt the entire tractor, rather than just the backhoe attachment. And that exactly what you want. The lower 3pt arms are rotated up to highest position and are not used by the backhoe.

Most tractor manufacturers today provide a subframe mounted backhoe for specific models in their model line. You also need to insure proper rear hydraulic ports are installed on your tractor. These backhoes once installed are run completely off hydraulics. Your specific tractor, the Yanmar YM2310 is a 1981 model year, and currently I see no subframe mounted backhoe attachment made or available for that tractor.

 

[ovrszd]

All backhoe's abilities only match the machine's ability to stay in position.

 

[Smokeydog]

Kubota makes some TLB commercial quality machines. Started with a B20 thirty years ago. Now have a M59 and B26. The B26 is the best for maintaining over a mile of buried utilities and around buildings on the farm. Also used to mow and maintain our landscape, orchard and berry patches. It was the first backhoe with a thumb I used. Once knowing the difference wouldn’t want to be without.

Have owned 3pt and subframe backhoes. Seriously lacking in safety, function, performance and durability. Not for me.

 

[David Wayne]

I have a BH77 on a Kubota L3400 while my son has a Bob-cat 334 mini. The mini will out dig
the backhoe 3 to 1. Since you already have a hoe I think you would happy with a mini and will
find yourself leaving the hoe sit.

David