Any way to tell if a air leak vs lack of oil caused a saw to burn up?

[xyz123]

How would we know the contents of the links? Just take your word for it? For all we know, you could be a russian hacker using human engineering to get folks to sign up for stuff. :laughing:

TBN links work weather your signed in or not.

Cant fix stupid :confused3:. Guess you havent noticed my other chainsaw threads here to know. Later :laughing:

 

[crazyal]

The problem is that I have signed up for way too many forums to see one thing and then never return. I'm still a member of a Hyundai forum even though I just needed to see where the crank position sensor was for a friend. Sure you can cancel but do forums ever take your name off their site? Now I get spam from a number of these sites. I appreciate the offer and maybe I'll sign up but if I'm not going to be an active member, chainsaws are just not something I really care that much about, do you really want me?

 

[MossRoad]

Cant fix stupid...

You left out an apostrophe...

 

[Coyote machine]

Oil/gas mix CAN separate out over time and in a gas can will leave the heavier part in the bottom of the can=oil in can, low ratio gas/oil mix in saw. That's why many manufacturers of saws tell one to shake the mix can vigorously before putting mix in a saw, or any two stroke engine, and to do same with the saw before starting.
Believing otherwise with today's gas is sheer foolishness. And anyone who uses E-10 gas should use it up quick or risk serious consequences to their engines.
I have seven Stihl saws I use for different jobs, and ONLY run Ethanol FREE gas with Stihl Ultra oil. I shake the can and the saw before starting, after refueling every time. I also do NOT use any gas containers that can vent to atmosphere. They are all sealed, and do not allow any outside air in.
When in the field, the plastic 'can' is stored in the shade, or covered, and NEVER left open except when refueling.

IF you value your equipment, I suggest adopting these exact practices, and not wavering from them going forward. I hope you find this info useful to long saw/equipment life.

 

[Sodo]

Believing otherwise with today's gas is sheer foolishness. And anyone who uses E-10 gas should use it up quick or risk serious consequences to their engines,,,

Is it sheer foolishness or sheer luck? Or could it be older gas engine vulnerabilities with a healthy dose of internet legend? Could be a mix of all.

I drain the "older" carbs, ignore the more modern ones, & haven't had ethanol problems for 5 years. Actually much more than 5 years. 5 years ago is when I decided to man up and buy Stabil - even though I wasn't having problems. But the ethanol unrest was just starting to ROLL and I was jumping on the bandwagon at that time. Then I had difficulty actually mothballing my 50+ engines. I looked back on what this Stabil bidness might gain me, not actually having genuine problems prior. So abandoned the Stabil bidness and its been fine. So I've had much more than 5 years to question ethanol unrest.

I open carbs from time to time and do have to clear out jets etc. I do this when I buy a neglected old engine, look thru the carb and clean it out. Bought a jeep with 1979 engine, it ran like crap. Carb cleaner thru every passageway and it purrs like a kitten. And new engines sometimes need a first cleaning.

Typically no problems from then on, but I'm careful not to put a dirty gas can filler into the tank (etc). I don't recall this as being any different than the pre-ethanol days.

But the average modern man doesn't know how to do these things, or considers it a major problem and may well think theres something else to blame. I know lots of capable mechanics who err on the side of caution, do all the internet things. That method works for them, but I consider it unnecessary by my experiences in NOT doing it. With 50+ engines I should have s couple problems per week if you believe the internet legends. I've never opened the carbs on my Stihl saws in 5 years (never changed the gas either) but probably should go thru the carbs.

Cant fix stupid :confused3:

I'm gonna try. Got a 2013 Stihl MS201T that Stihl screwed up, then fixed in 2014, and wants full pop for the upgraded parts (carb & flywheel & ignition). I think I finally got all the info how to mod the parts (except ign).

On orig. topic I agree the guy probably ran it on straight gas (or somebody did). Pretty easy to confuse gas cans if you don't have a good system.

 

[Fawken]

My Weedeater trimmer and Poulan saws sometimes sit for 4-5 months without usage. If there is any mix left in the tank when I go out for the first cutting I just dump it as a matter of practice.

 

[crazyal]

The oil I use is black in color. You can't miss the difference between straight gas and mixed (in my case). Even in the red plastic gas cans it's day and night. But I also run between 36:1 and 40:1 ratios. I've never fouled a plug and I don't use too much fuel a year, maybe 3 gallons. So I prefer to use up the oil a little sooner vs having it sit on the shelf for a couple of years. I did buy a can of the gas from Lowes. I wanted something that could sit for a year or two and still be good. You never know when a tree will fall and block the drive. Even though it's mixed it's clear in color. I suspect that the non mixed fuel they sell is also clear. I could see how someone could just grab a can without looking assuming it's all for 2 strokes only to find out that it's not.

 

[Sodo]

Never seen black, but I do appreciate the dye (I have green or red). I run 80:1 in some motorcycles, the color kinda hard to see sometimes. The 50:1 is easier to see.

I have a lot of engines and a lot of gas cans. I label all my cans and police them like a ****, which puzzles other people. Have 3 types, straight, 50:1, 80:1. And in the summertime now will have a 4th type (non-ethanol). And have diesel cans too. It's a PITA, have enough other complications, not thrilled about adding more cans. No surprise to me that somebody could get confused and pour straight gas in a 2-stroke.

 

[crazyal]

My chainsaw is the last 2 stroke engine I have. Even my Honda weekwaker is 4 stroke. After using it and feeling the extra torque compared to the Stihl I was borrowing from a friend I'm wondering how long it will be before we see 4 stroke chainsaws. It was always weight being the limiting factor but I think with the EPA cracking down on 2 strokes killing their power and the advancements made with 4 strokes it's not as far off as it once was.

 

[MossRoad]

My chainsaw is the last 2 stroke engine I have. Even my Honda weekwaker is 4 stroke. After using it and feeling the extra torque compared to the Stihl I was borrowing from a friend I'm wondering how long it will be before we see 4 stroke chainsaws. It was always weight being the limiting factor but I think with the EPA cracking down on 2 strokes killing their power and the advancements made with 4 strokes it's not as far off as it once was.

A few things are probably keeping 4 strokes from chainsaws. Most notably, weight, expense of repair, complexity of repair, and initial cost. If you compare dirtbikes, 2 strokes VS 4 strokes, they pretty much had to double the engine displacement class to get the same speeds. Here's an interesting article on that subject. It doesn't favor one or the other and seems very unbiased.

2 Stroke vs 4 Stroke Dirt Bike - How They Measure Up On The Track | MotoSport

 

[MossRoad]

It kinda interesting the Stihl has the 4-mix 4 stroke engine in trimmers, weed whackers, and such. Can't find one in a chainsaw. Anyone know if they offer their 4-stroke in a chainsaw?

 

[Sodo]

If you compare dirtbikes, 2 strokes VS 4 strokes, they pretty much had to double the engine displacement class to get the same speeds.

Two stroke has a power stroke every turn, four stroke has a power stroke every other turn. A 250cc 2-stroke and 500cc 4 stroke actually have equal volumetric displacement.

 

[LD1]

Two stroke has a power stroke every turn, four stroke has a power stroke every other turn. A 250cc 2-stroke and 500cc 4 stroke actually have equal volumetric displacement.

There is a whole lot more to it than that. The displacementnis still the same. 2 strokes have twice the power strokes for a given rpm, but that don't quite equate to twice the power though.

2-strokes don't have valves. And don't have a cycle for exhausting gas or intaking gas. Rather everything kinda overlaps. Exhausting at the same time as intaking, then starring compression while exhaust is still open. And opening the exhaust early in the power cycle. That's why on dirt bikes there is alot of science in the exhaust and why they have " power bands". On a saw however without a pipe, it wouldn't take double the displacement to equal the same power. 25% more of around there. The issue is weight. Lots more moving parts and adddd weight

 

[MossRoad]

4 strokes are more efficient, too. I used to drag race a two stroke twin Yamaha RD400. It would eat pretty much every 4 stroke up to 750cc with ease. That's where it shined: going really fast. You had to keep it at high revs in the power band area to get good power out of it. But man it would suck fuel down! I wonder what the optimum speed for a chain saw blade is and how much power is required to keep it at that speed when it starts biting wood? I also wonder what the torque curve is on a 2 stroke chainsaw and a 4 stroke (if there is one). Would make for some good reading. :thumbsup:

 

[Coyote machine]

BTW, chainsaws don't have blades, they have bars.

And I know from personal experience with 2 stroke engines, that the ethanal issues are real. I've been to shops that try to repair the carbs, and end up replacing them due to the labor cost of putzing with rusted internal jets, orifices etc. that can't be brought back to specs, or close enough to run right. There are so few adjustments that work effectively on the crappy carbs they make these days, that have to comply with the emissions regs that keeping things running right is next to impossible, unless one is very strict on what they run in what machine.

And a 79 Jeep engine is not a 2 stroke. Running carb cleaner through it's carb might have cleaned it up, but that has no reference to how 2 strokes have been plagued by emissions and ethanol/crappy carbs, etc.
50 engines, must be proved by a picture of them with #s attached! It's required.:thumbsup:

 

[Sodo]

Well at least we agree part of the problem is that people have to take their problems to the shops. Where (IMHO) they will tell you that your large repair bill is the fuel's fault, not their inability to fix it efficiently while the next guy is willing to give them $85/hr. Perhaps exaggerate a little to soften the blow.

That is the new world.

I'm a tinkerer, this stuff your dad used to do is easy for me, so I'm not afraid of it, willing to take the chance. But in the last five years, since I gave up on the ethanol legend I've had to do nothing, to 50+ engines. Hence my conclusion. I feel like 5 years is enough time. I've had ethanol in my engines at least 15 years. I do not prefer it.

I'm certain that folks are having general problems but I'm not. I was surprised for a few years but the surprise has diminished.

 

[MossRoad]

The only problem that I've had that I will attribute to ethanol is my fuel lines in several chains saws turned to mush... and at that, I can't prove it was the ethanol. Other than that, I've been running everything, cars, trucks, motorcycles, tractors, lawn equipment, generators, etc... on 10% corn for probably 20 years with no problems that can be attributed to ethanol.

 

[DarkBlack]

Couple of points to ponder:

A 4-stroke is less of a power/weight detriment to a saw than it is to a motor-cross bike. In the bike the mass of the engine detracts from the velocity accel-decal, and cornering of the bike. A chainsaw engine doesn't move it's own weight like a bike. Only slight arm powered movements from saw cut to cut.

As stated before: A 2-stroke is less powerful than 2x the cc 4 stroke counterpart because of intake and exhaust design compromises.

A "4-mix" is not a good representative of a 4 stroke. Too many design compromises.

Biggest obstacle for 4-stroke in chainsaw isn't weight. It's being able to provide fuel and lubrication in all positions ie..upside down.
( Honda has a small 'true' all position 4-stroke, but there are reports of varying longevity based on engine orientation)

Carburetor/air cleaner is big sizing problem in single cylinder 4-strokes. Must be made very oversized for engine output as these pieces spend 75% of their time inactive, and must be oversized for a single brief event.

 

[DarkBlack]

Honda Engines | GX35 Mini 4-Stroke Engine | Features, Specs, and Model Info

 

[xyz123]

There was a 4 stroke dolmar 50cc chainsaw not to many years ago. Was at shows etc but never sold to public.

4 pages on it with pics. http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/dolmar/dolmar-500v-4-stroke/

You all can keep those 4mix pos things. Glad to see stihl coming back to 2 strokes in OPE.