Any thoughts on this idea

woodlandfarms · Dec 3, 2008

Like us all, I am frustrated with the lock unlock position on the tractor. The fact it is used as a 3rd port to operate the grapple or bucket is frustrating.

I tried a couple of builds here to move the control and failed miserably, generally due to my inability to work well with metal.

So, what are the thoughts, if any, on adding another spool to the tractor. How easy would it be to plumb it in? This would be placed on the left side of the wheel, although position might be challenging as the brake mechanism is just underneath (might have to just bolt it on top).

Anyway, just thinking outloud.

MossRoad · Dec 3, 2008

woodlandfarms said:
Like us all, I am frustrated with the lock unlock position on the tractor. The fact it is used as a 3rd port to operate the grapple or bucket is frustrating.

I tried a couple of builds here to move the control and failed miserably, generally due to my inability to work well with metal.

So, what are the thoughts, if any, on adding another spool to the tractor. How easy would it be to plumb it in? This would be placed on the left side of the wheel, although position might be challenging as the brake mechanism is just underneath (might have to just bolt it on top).

Anyway, just thinking outloud.

I would seriously consider adding an electric diverter solenoid with the switch control on the existing joystick. Push the button and you have quick attach/grapple action with one movement of the joystick. Push it again and you have your normal function back.

J_J · Dec 3, 2008

Carl, You could plumb another joystick valve on the other side of the steering wheel. I purchased a joystick stick from hydraulics surplus with power beyond. You need something like this if you will be placing another valve downstream, or as David said plumb in a diverter valve.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008120315504341&item=9-4782&catname=hydraulic

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008120315504341&item=9-4128&catname=hydraulic

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008120315504341&item=9-2277&catname=hydraulic

woodlandfarms · Dec 3, 2008

The diverter does not interest me too much as I like to move the bucket while clamping. Not to completely say no, just kinda no. and that sort of rig is pretty expensive.

I liked the second choice, but I am confused about the product. It is like the lift dump circuit on the PT? Meaning it does 4 things? Or....

I was just thinking of one that did two things (Open and close the jaws or scoop).

I don't get how the third choice works, but I am stupid that way

Secondly, how would I plumb this in? Take the tank return line from the other or T the input line from the other circuit?

Finally, I wonder if there are some detail photos of the 2nd spool. Wondering how I would mount it and such...

Also, I assume it would survive the GPM as it is not the PTO circuit I am involving.

KentT · Dec 3, 2008

Carl,

Don't forget that you can use cable-controlled valves too. Prince, among others, makes them (surplus center had them a while ago -- didn't check)...

Then you put the valve where it is most appropriate based on space and hydraulic plumbing already in place, and run the cable to where you want the control to be.

The fender-mounted controls found on some SCUTs are usually cable-controlled... they're less expensive than using electrical controlled valves, and likely easier to finetune the adjustments...

There's several ways you could skin this cat...

MossRoad · Dec 4, 2008

Your joystick valve has three spools right now.

One is for raise/lower
Two is for curl/dump
Three is down by your right knee for the quick attach/any accessory like the grapple jaws.

Do you want to add a fourth spool to control the accessories instead of connecting them to the quick attach spool or do you just want to move the function of the knee lever over to the left side so it is easier to use?

J_J · Dec 4, 2008

woodlandfarms said:
The diverter does not interest me too much as I like to move the bucket while clamping. Not to completely say no, just kinda no. and that sort of rig is pretty expensive.

I liked the second choice, but I am confused about the product. It is like the lift dump circuit on the PT? Meaning it does 4 things? Or....

I was just thinking of one that did two things (Open and close the jaws or scoop).

I don't get how the third choice works, but I am stupid that way

Secondly, how would I plumb this in? Take the tank return line from the other or T the input line from the other circuit?

Finally, I wonder if there are some detail photos of the 2nd spool. Wondering how I would mount it and such...

Also, I assume it would survive the GPM as it is not the PTO circuit I am involving.

Carl,

The second valve is a two way valve. Once hooked up. a flip of the lever in one direction will shift the input to one of two cylinders. Pull the lever to the back position, the QD cylinder would be activated and used normally. In the forward position, the lever shifts fluid to the grapple cylinder, and the single lever function will activate the grapple. In essence, you have one more cylinder that you can operate with the single lever.

You could use an electric valve just for the grapple by using the PTO hydraulic fluid. Real simple. the valve would be mounted on the lift arms. Lines from the valve plug in to the PTO QD's. Once hooked up, to operate the grapple, turn the PTO switch on, this will send hyd fluid to the electric valve. Now flip a spring centered toggle switch forward, and the valve will close the grapple. Flip the other way, and you reverse what you were doing. You have to supply 12v to the valve via the toggle switch.

woodlandfarms · Dec 4, 2008

MossRoad said:
Your joystick valve has three spools right now.

One is for raise/lower
Two is for curl/dump
Three is down by your right knee for the quick attach/any accessory like the grapple jaws.

Do you want to add a fourth spool to control the accessories instead of connecting them to the quick attach spool or do you just want to move the function of the knee lever over to the left side so it is easier to use?

Correct, and I have used a few methods here with little luck as I have no skill with delicate metal. Nor the gear to properly form it.

KentT · Dec 4, 2008

woodlandfarms said:
Correct, and I have used a few methods here with little luck as I have no skill with delicate metal. Nor the gear to properly form it.

Carl,

I dunno if you've seen the Aux PTO mod I did on my 425, but the "most delicate" thing I had to do was bend the new control rod to fit, using my vice and a propane torch. Other than that, it was an electric drill and hand tools...

Mods & Custom Builts

woodlandfarms · Dec 4, 2008

I remember seeing this. I was worried on my PT that the steel was too thick to drill through, and I have no idea how you hooked this up to the hydraulic control. You have pix of that?

Maybe, just maybe. What did you make the stick out of?

KentT · Dec 4, 2008

woodlandfarms said:
I remember seeing this. I was worried on my PT that the steel was too thick to drill through, and I have no idea how you hooked this up to the hydraulic control. You have pix of that?

Maybe, just maybe. What did you make the stick out of?

Sorry -- no pix. My old camera was dead at the time and I hadn't replaced it, as I recall..

I used a common eyebolt-style turnbuckle to connect from the rod to the valve, and the original pin and locking clip from the existing valve -- the only part I removed was the handle itself. The turnbuckle made the length of this connection readily adjustable.

I made the cross-rod/stick out of a rod I'd scavenged from the scrap heap that is my "parts bin"... I think a piece of 3/8" cold-rolled rod from the hardware store would've worked just fine. Mine has some "spring action" in it, but that doesn't prevent it from fully opening or closing the valve, and if anything may actually work better. I know that I get gradual movements on everything I put on the Aux PTO circuit, with none of the jerkiness (at full throttle, especially) that can often encounter on the lift/tilt circuit...

The biggest hassles were:

1. Trying to locate the correct position to drill the hole in the "bulkhead"

2. Actually drilling that hole in what's likely 3/8" or thicker plate.

3. Generally working in that cramped space up under there is a pain -- I had to loosen the bolts holding the entire bank of valves to the bulkhead in order to get room enough to remove the old handle and connect the new one. But, I didn't want to break open any of the hydraulic circuits if I didn't have to, and I didn't. Simply removing the bolts that hold the valvebody let me get enough working room...

3238dpw · Dec 4, 2008

Well this was in a thread you started last spring. Is this a workable idea for you?
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-have-pictures-quck-attach-2.html#post1355747

woodlandfarms · Dec 4, 2008

3238dpw said:
Well this was in a thread you started last spring. Is this a workable idea for you?
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-have-pictures-quck-attach-2.html#post1355747

I tried it and it did not work our for me. I had issues with the geometry at the handle portion. Could not make it work in my favor. I did not have the carb connectors so I was cobbleing and it just did not work out. I like your idea though and am going to try and implement it....

J_J · Dec 5, 2008

Carl,

In your first post, I thought you wanted to control a grapple separately. To use two different cylinders, you have to either unhook the hyd lines and connect to the other cylinder, giving slow action, or use a switching valve, or a separate control for the grapple. with faster action than the lock cylinder circuit.

woodlandfarms · Dec 5, 2008

J_J said:
Carl,

In your first post, I thought you wanted to control a grapple separately. To use two different cylinders, you have to either unhook the hyd lines and connect to the other cylinder, giving slow action, or use a switching valve, or a separate control for the grapple. with faster action than the lock cylinder circuit.

I do! I am just lazy and cheap. I am not as good with metal as I would like to be so the thought of "building" a solution is worrisome. I know with hoses I can get the job done, but the second you put a drill in my hand carnage ensues.

But, JJ, you are the one who got me to change my own hoses out and look at me now. Happy to get in and wrench any hose on my PT.

KentT · Dec 5, 2008

woodlandfarms said:
... and look at me now. Happy to get in and wrench any hose on my PT.

Does this mean we should start calling you a "Hoser?"

Charlie_Iliff · Dec 5, 2008

My setup does not allow you to operate the functions at the same time, but makes it a much easier single-hand job to curl & clamp, etc.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/18180-joystick-circuit-selector-button.html

J_J · Dec 5, 2008

woodlandfarms said:
I do! I am just lazy and cheap. I am not as good with metal as I would like to be so the thought of "building" a solution is worrisome. I know with hoses I can get the job done, but the second you put a drill in my hand carnage ensues.

But, JJ, you are the one who got me to change my own hoses out and look at me now. Happy to get in and wrench any hose on my PT.

Carl, I am glad you changed out those hoses, that was probably half your troubles. What Charlie did is good, you can leave the switch in one position such as the grapple until you need to change implements. Have we seen a picture of your grapple? By using the PTO circuit, you get faster action, plus it has built in relief. If you wanted to slow it down, you could put restrictors in line, or put a needle valve in-line, and you can get it as slow as you want.

BobRip · Dec 5, 2008

Carl, take a look at this link which allows easier connection of attachments to your aux PTO. I am still very pleased with this. Maybe it is not what you are looking for, but it is in the area. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/82642-auxiliary-hydraulics-modification-422-425-a.html