Another Win For GM's HD's

[handirifle]

Nice that they picked last year's Ford to test against instead of the '15 currently available. You know, the one with more HP, more torque, and a beefier tranny.

I guess then the outcome wouldn't have gone GM's way...

Not disputing you, but I couldn't any mention of the model year of the Ford and Dodge, so if they were '14 models, then that is really bad, that coming from a GM guy. No test is ever "fair" completely, but it should be at least the same model year. Wonder where they are mentioned?

 

[fordmantpw]

Not disputing you, but I couldn't any mention of the model year of the Ford and Dodge, so if they were '14 models, then that is really bad, that coming from a GM guy. No test is ever "fair" completely, but it should be at least the same model year. Wonder where they are mentioned?

At the time of publish on 5/1, the '15 Fords were just becoming available, so at the time the article was written, the Ford's weren't available yet. Had they wanted a true test, they would have waited a month to compare apples to apples. If you want to show GM as a winner, do the test before Ford or Dodge releases a new model.

Now, I'm not saying GM is the only one that would do this, they all do. Just making a statement that the test is out of date as soon as it is published.

 

[handirifle]

Yea it should have been same model year, I agree with that 100%. I still contend they are never "fair" but at least go with what the others offer for the same model year.

I'm sure Ford and Dodge will want a rematch if their new offerings are better.

 

[fordmantpw]

Yea it should have been same model year, I agree with that 100%. I still contend they are never "fair" but at least go with what the others offer for the same model year.

I'm sure Ford and Dodge will want a rematch if their new offerings are better.

True. In the grand scheme of things, articles like this don't sell many trucks anyway.

 

[sacmarata]

I'll take my 94' 12 valve with triple disk, low stall converter and manual lockup switch and put it up against anything off the assembly line that doesn't have a Cummins in it.
I've smoked guys in higher HP trucks simply because I can lockup at will. While they are waiting to hit their sweet spot and finally lock up, I'm gone.
I also have 2 low, which I don't think is possible on the newer trannys.

Yea, I brag on my old '94 and never missed her more than I did this past weekend when I took the 32' travel trailer out with the wife's 6.0 chevy.
Now THAT was a noticeable difference. Going 50mph on Interstate uphills is not something I wasn't used to.

 

[fordmantpw]

I'll take my 94' 12 valve with triple disk, low stall converter and manual lockup switch and put it up against anything off the assembly line that doesn't have a Cummins in it.
I've smoked guys in higher HP trucks simply because I can lockup at will. While they are waiting to hit their sweet spot and finally lock up, I'm gone.
I also have 2 low, which I don't think is possible on the newer trannys.

Yea, I brag on my old '94 and never missed her more than I did this past weekend when I took the 32' travel trailer out with the wife's 6.0 chevy.
Now THAT was a noticeable difference. Going 50mph on Interstate uphills is not something I wasn't used to.

Yeah, good luck with that.

Unless, of course, you are one of those modded engines putting out 1000 ft-lbs of torque.

 

[sacmarata]

What I think is funny is why anyone in their right mind would buy a diesel for 10,000# towing jobs? It's not 1996. Gas trucks are stronger than the diesel stuff of 15 years ago. I have a 1/2 ton that has no problem with 10K. I don't get my diesel out of the garage till I am a ton north of that.

Chris

I might have missed something but I'm just not buying it. I would choose any of the big 3 diesels over a gasser any day for a 10,000lb load. I hear guys talk all the time about how their gasser pulls this or that just fine. I usually tell em to get back with me in 5 years and see where it got em. Having no problem with 10,000lbs now is a lot different than having no problems continuously.

Is there a gasser out there that can hold a candle to 20 year old Cummins 12v with free mods and a triple disk TC. If there is I sure haven't met one.

Jellico Mountain in TN is the Crucible that separates the men from the boys around here. Bring your gasser and 10,000# load to Jellico and see if you wanna leave the diesel in the garage next time.

 

[sacmarata]

Yeah, good luck with that.

Unless, of course, you are one of those modded engines putting out 1000 ft-lbs of torque.

I've had extremely good luck with that and all with mostly free mods. You can easily get 300+hp for free on an old 12 valve. Pitch the fuel plate and advance the timing 16*. Get a cheap set of 4k gov springs and viola!!! 300+hp and 600+lb torque. Stock injectors, charger, intake, cam etc...
The only real upgrade required is a triple disk torque converter. Folks get by without em, but I consider it necessary.

I'm pushing somewhere around 360hp currently and have 320,000 miles.

I've got a lead foot and test the modern competition out all the time. If it's stock and not chipped, I'll smoke em. Loaded, unloaded, up hill, etc...

What's really fun is when a gasser with a load tries to hang with me up hills and I slow down so they can catch up and then leave em again.

...so some modern diesel owners will say "I can buy a chip and get 100hp." First off, you can't. Theres real hp gains but not the 100hp listed on the box. With a 12v, I CAN get new injectors and a bigger charger and see REAL WORLD 200+hp. I also get to sell my old charger for a TON!

The point isn't to say how weak the newer stuff is, because it's not. I even like the dreaded 6.0 stroke, but it's a real testament to the staying ability of a truly superior platform Cummins has.

 

[fordmantpw]

I've had extremely good luck with that and all with mostly free mods. You can easily get 300+hp for free on an old 12 valve. Pitch the fuel plate and advance the timing 16*. Get a cheap set of 4k gov springs and viola!!! 300+hp and 600+lb torque. Stock injectors, charger, intake, cam etc...
The only real upgrade required is a triple disk torque converter. Folks get by without em, but I consider it necessary.

I'm pushing somewhere around 360hp currently and have 320,000 miles.

I've got a lead foot and test the modern competition out all the time. If it's stock and not chipped, I'll smoke em. Loaded, unloaded, up hill, etc...

What's really fun is when a gasser with a load tries to hang with me up hills and I slow down so they can catch up and then leave em again.

And you also get 28 MPG empty and 21 loaded with 10k lbs behind you?

 

[Diamondpilot]

I might have missed something but I'm just not buying it. I would choose any of the big 3 diesels over a gasser any day for a 10,000lb load. I hear guys talk all the time about how their gasser pulls this or that just fine. I usually tell em to get back with me in 5 years and see where it got em. Having no problem with 10,000lbs now is a lot different than having no problems continuously.

Is there a gasser out there that can hold a candle to 20 year old Cummins 12v with free mods and a triple disk TC. If there is I sure haven't met one.

Jellico Mountain in TN is the Crucible that separates the men from the boys around here. Bring your gasser and 10,000# load to Jellico and see if you wanna leave the diesel in the garage next time.

I hit the area 5 times a year on my way to Lake Norris.

Like I said I have a Diesel putting out 160 HP above stock but for 10K or less a Modern 1/2 ton is just fine and a Eco Boost is better yet.

Chris

 

[sacmarata]

And you also get 28 MPG empty and 21 loaded with 10k lbs behind you?

Who said that?

With stock tires and the topper on I got 24mpg empty once. that was a 300mile trip so I consider it to be a pretty accurate hand calculation. I generally average about 20 empty and 14 loaded, but I have a lead foot. I wouldnt doubt someone could average way better empty. Loaded is too hard to average due to weight and roads.

 

[fordmantpw]

Who said that?

With stock tires and the topper on I got 24mpg empty once. that was a 300mile trip so I consider it to be a pretty accurate hand calculation. I generally average about 20 empty and 14 loaded, but I have a lead foot. I wouldnt doubt someone could average way better empty. Loaded is too hard to average due to weight and roads.

Most that brag about out-towing new diesels with their old lightly modded diesels also brag about getting superhuman MPG numbers out of their diesels. Glad to see you aren't the latter!

 

[roadhunter]

Most that brag about out-towing new diesels with their old lightly modded diesels also brag about getting superhuman MPG numbers out of their diesels. Glad to see you aren't the latter!

Not sure why you have a hard time believing that some of the older Cummins engines get better mileage than the new diesels but they do. I think it hurts the feelings of folks who spend $50k+ for a truck and have less power and mileage than a guy in an old Dodge. I hope you are not one of those people.

 

[94BULLITT]

I've got a lead foot and test the modern competition out all the time. If it's stock and not chipped, I'll smoke em. Loaded, unloaded, up hill, etc...

What's really fun is when a gasser with a load tries to hang with me up hills and I slow down so they can catch up and then leave em again.

...so some modern diesel owners will say "I can buy a chip and get 100hp." First off, you can't. Theres real hp gains but not the 100hp listed on the box. With a 12v, I CAN get new injectors and a bigger charger and see REAL WORLD 200+hp. I also get to sell my old charger for a TON!

The point isn't to say how weak the newer stuff is, because it's not. I even like the dreaded 6.0 stroke, but it's a real testament to the staying ability of a truly superior platform Cummins has.

You aren't like this old guy I know are you? He gets in 2 or 3 "races" everyday to and from work. The only problem the people he is the people he is "racing" don't know they are in a race. He drives a 4 cylinder S-10, I don't think there is anything much slower on the road.

 

[fordmantpw]

Not sure why you have a hard time believing that some of the older Cummins engines get better mileage than the new diesels but they do. I think it hurts the feelings of folks who spend $50k+ for a truck and have less power and mileage than a guy in an old Dodge. I hope you are not one of those people.

I don't have a problem believing that at all...in fact, I KNOW they do. I drive an '08 6.4L Ford...it's fuel mileage is less than stellar.

What I DO have trouble believing is these guys that chip their diesel and then brag about how they are pulling down nearly 30 MPG empty and 22+ MPG loaded with 10k lbs behind them. I've heard several of those stories, and I know they are full of crap!

However, I will put the newest offerings from the big 3 against anything from 20 years ago for towing. I think the new DPF engines have resolved most of the issues of the early DPF engines and they are making incredible power while still getting great fuel economy. I'm sure an older Cummins 12V can still come close or match the new engines for mileage, but there's no way it can out-tow one of the newer diesels. It just ain't gonna happen unless it is crazy tuned putting out gobs of torque. Still, I would take the modern engine for safety of the engine, as well as the driver.

 

[sacmarata]

I don't have a problem believing that at all...in fact, I KNOW they do. I drive an '08 6.4L Ford...it's fuel mileage is less than stellar.

What I DO have trouble believing is these guys that chip their diesel and then brag about how they are pulling down nearly 30 MPG empty and 22+ MPG loaded with 10k lbs behind them. I've heard several of those stories, and I know they are full of crap!

However, I will put the newest offerings from the big 3 against anything from 20 years ago for towing. I think the new DPF engines have resolved most of the issues of the early DPF engines and they are making incredible power while still getting great fuel economy. I'm sure an older Cummins 12V can still come close or match the new engines for mileage, but there's no way it can out-tow one of the newer diesels. It just ain't gonna happen unless it is crazy tuned putting out gobs of torque. Still, I would take the modern engine for safety of the engine, as well as the driver.

I didn't intend for this to turn into a this vs that thread and apologise to the OP if it has taken on that vibe. I too have heard the stories about towing even 26,000lbs and geting 20+mpg. Most of em are young kids who just wanna talk. I have done an honest 24mpg empty before so I wouldnt doubt some of the 28mpg stories though. I don't see how because mine is a light single cab, but hey who knows. As far as towing ability, I stand by my claims on the old lightly moded 12v. Stock vs stock, the newer trucks would spank it, but with no fuel plate, timing advanced 16* and a triple disk with manual lockup....thats pretty hard to beat...especially coming from 5.9 displacement.

I'm not a brand basher. Like I said before, I even like the dreaded 6.0 Powerstroke. Once bulletproofed, it's a great engine.

 

[sacmarata]

You aren't like this old guy I know are you? He gets in 2 or 3 "races" everyday to and from work. The only problem the people he is the people he is "racing" don't know they are in a race. He drives a 4 cylinder S-10, I don't think there is anything much slower on the road.

Where I live diesels are king and it seems every highschool kid gets a shiny new diesel when they turn 16. Driving a diesel, when around town, I get challenged at nearly every red light. Mostly, I just enjoy knowing my tranny and TC will last forever if I don't beat on em too much, but every now and then, if I see a stock pipe on the kids truck, I'll give em a run for their money. I like watching the look on their face when I lockup at 45 mph fully spooled up and walk away from their $45,000 truck with my grandpa truck sporting a topper. I don't doubt some of the newer ones are pushing more HP stock than I am lightly modded, but I can lockup when I want and put all the torque on the ground. It's pretty hard to hang with from 45mph to 70mph.

 

[fordmantpw]

I didn't intend for this to turn into a this vs that thread and apologise to the OP if it has taken on that vibe. I too have heard the stories about towing even 26,000lbs and geting 20+mpg. Most of em are young kids who just wanna talk. I have done an honest 24mpg empty before so I wouldnt doubt some of the 28mpg stories though. I don't see how because mine is a light single cab, but hey who knows. As far as towing ability, I stand by my claims on the old lightly moded 12v. Stock vs stock, the newer trucks would spank it, but with no fuel plate, timing advanced 16* and a triple disk with manual lockup....thats pretty hard to beat...especially coming from 5.9 displacement.

I'm not a brand basher. Like I said before, I even like the dreaded 6.0 Powerstroke. Once bulletproofed, it's a great engine.

I probably came off a little brash and didn't mean to take things off topic either, and for that I apologize.

The 6.0 PowerStroke was really a black eye for Ford. Like you said, though, once bulletproofed, it's great. The 6.4L is much better, it's fuel economy just sucks due to the DPF, EGR, and other EPA goodies. The 6.7L is turning out to be a great engine, and I think the '15 models are going to be even better due to changes in the turbo as well as beefing up the tranny.

Now, I think we can agree that there is nothing cooler than a highly modded Cummins rolling coal dragging a sled down the tracks! That is a blast to watch (and listen to)!

 

[aczlan]

Just a note, I heard back from James Menzies (who wrote the article) and the Ford/Dodge were 2014 model year trucks. He also said "They admitted they had to use rentals as the competition isn't always eager to provide trucks for these types of comparisons!"

Aaron Z

 

[handirifle]

Just a note, I heard back from James Menzies (who wrote the article) and the Ford/Dodge were 2014 model year trucks. He also said "They admitted they had to use rentals as the competition isn't always eager to provide trucks for these types of comparisons!"

Aaron Z

Coming from a GM guy, I have to admit, that's pretty sad. Poor journalism, in my opinion. No telling what the condition of either of the older trucks was. But hey, if it's on the internet, it has to be true, right?