Another stuck clutch

[billfires]

After my first stuck clutch a few years ago, I have been blocking the clutch on my 1920. This still has not prevented it from happening again so I checked the cotter pin in the bottom of the clutch housing and found it was solidly in place (and even had the factory paint still on it). I tapped it with a small hammer and used pliers to rotate it around and up and down. No moisture came out but some rust colored dust and small particles did. The tractor is a 2000 model year with 584 hours on it. The clutch has never been adjusted and the PTO has never been used. I can operate it in low range and sometimes medium range but pushing the clutch does absolutely nothing. The clutch when unstuck operated normally. Any ideas on why this happens? Thanks, Bill C

 

[fried1765]

billfires:
Do you have a repair manual for your 1920?
The repair manual, and operators manual, both explain how to adjust the clutch.
My Ford 1920 is in my barn on Cape Cod, (clutch blocked) and I am already in Florida for the winter.
If I were there I might be able to help you out. Just put a new clutch in mine in September.
I have seen simple clutch unsticking methods described somewhere here on tractorbynet.com

 

[Soundguy]

Billfires.. are you saying you BLOCKED the clutch, and then found it stuck?

If it was blocked, and still acts stuck, we need to go in a different direction

 

[jwstewar]

I've got something similar going on with my 2003 NH 24D with 1940 hours on it. I had split the tractor last spring to fix a leak in the hydrostatic pump. I then used it all last summer and winter just fine. Started out OK this spring. Used the PHD and mowed the grass with the MMM a time or two. The next time I started mowing, it worked fine. I stopped to go to the bathroom and add some fuel. Got back on. Engaged the MMM and it grinded a little bit. Thinking I just pushed the clutch in and moved the lever at the same time, didn't think much about it. I stopped again for something and when I went to start again, I couldn't engage the MMM at all. Can't engage the Rear PTO at all. I can get it into range if making sure the hydro pedal is absolutely in neutral. So I've not been able to use rear implements all summer. I've pulled stuff and used the loader quite a bit. I've used the MMM by engaging the mid-PTO before starting the tractor and by passing the safety switch. I plan on splitting it (yet again) about February so that I can have it ready to go by spring.

 

[jwstewar]

Oh, I have a buddy that is a manufacturer rep for John Deere. He travels around to different JD dealers in the Midwest, he said 2000 hours is about the max you can expect out of a dry disc clutch.

 

[Soundguy]

Bunk...

No way to stick an arbitrary hour # on a clutch.. I've seen a rental worker ruin a clutch in 2 hours, and bought antiques with original clutches.

All depends on use.

Some tasks are more clutch intensive than others.

 

[DK35vince]

Oh, I have a buddy that is a manufacturer rep for John Deere. He travels around to different JD dealers in the Midwest, he said 2000 hours is about the max you can expect out of a dry disc clutch.

I'm at near 2000 hours (1985 hours) and I have never needed the first clutch adjustment yet.
I'm hoping/expecting thousands more hours out of the clutch

 

[Opti-Mist]

High atmospheric moisture causes the friction disc to adhere to the flywheel. It is worse in coastal areas where salt enters the equation. Ford started blocking clutch pedals in the disengaged position in the '70s due this occurring on tractors at the shipping docks.

 

[jwstewar]

Bunk...

No way to stick an arbitrary hour # on a clutch.. I've seen a rental worker ruin a clutch in 2 hours, and bought antiques with original clutches.

All depends on use.

Some tasks are more clutch intensive than others.

Sorry Chris, I think I'm going to believe him. Like I said, he is a John Deere Manufacturer's rep. He is the one called in when the dealers can't figure something out, so I have to think Don knows what he is talking about - and I'm not saying you don't. And we are not talking wearing a clutch out - because I know, if you don't know what you are doing you can burn a clutch up pretty fast. We are talking other things happening to it. I won't go into the details of how he described what happens and I would quote it wrong and then everyone would jump down my throat.

 

[jwstewar]

I'm at near 2000 hours (1985 hours) and I have never needed the first clutch adjustment yet.
I'm hoping/expecting thousands more hours out of the clutch

I'm at 1940 on my TC24D and it had never needed adjustment either. Since it was hydrostatic and the clutch is hardly every used, I figured it was good to go for thousands of hours and it would be something I would never need to repair. Well, like I said, mine went out in a period of an afternoon.

Now that I'm thinking back a bit, I remember when I talked to the dealership about the hydrostat pump, they told me then at 1800ish hours, that I would be due for a clutch soon. Since I had no signs of wear or play and it meant another 4 or 5 hours plus $500+ in parts, I decided to forgo it. I should have listened to the dealership.

 

[Soundguy]

Yeah, I'm probably full of it and obviously have NO practical experience with tractors......

 

[billfires]

Billfires.. are you saying you BLOCKED the clutch, and then found it stuck?

If it was blocked, and still acts stuck, we need to go in a different direction

Yes it was blocked, as I have since the first time it happened a few years ago. Last winter it happened but with the amount of snow we had it eventually freed up. The tractor is parked outside, but is not used on a regular basis. I have used high speed maneuvers to get it unstuck in the past. Bill C

 

[Soundguy]

If it was blocked down, the disc should not be rusted to the flywheel.

At that point a seized pilot may be a possibility. Need to verify if the clutch actually got blocked before sticking.

 

[DK35vince]

I'm at 1940 on my TC24D and it had never needed adjustment either. Since it was hydrostatic and the clutch is hardly every used, I figured it was good to go for thousands of hours and it would be something I would never need to repair. Well, like I said, mine went out in a period of an afternoon.

Now that I'm thinking back a bit, I remember when I talked to the dealership about the hydrostat pump, they told me then at 1800ish hours, that I would be due for a clutch soon. Since I had no signs of wear or play and it meant another 4 or 5 hours plus $500+ in parts, I decided to forgo it. I should have listened to the dealership.

Sorry I still don't know what the **** your dealership is talking about.
A dry clutch on a hydrostat should never need replaced.

 

[fried1765]

jwstewar:
I bought a 1988 Ford 1920 FEL last Fall and put it away for the winter while I went to Florida.
The tractor had 1056 hours on it, and I wanted to completely strip it for repair/repaint.
This past summer, a friend and I did just that. We did not "strip" the paint, but stripped the more easily removable parts off the tractor frame.
I decided that not knowing who used it, or how it was used, a clutch might be a good idea at the same time (27 year old tractor).
We split it, and had it back together in about 5 hours. The clutch job was a good bit easier that I thought it might be.
I figured that clutch was likely more than 1/2 used up, and with me at 75 years old now, I would likely not be able to do a clutch swap at 85.
New A&I aftermarket clutch, clutch release bearing, pilot bearing, rear main seal was $520.
Sand blasted many parts, primed, and painted everything.
New wheels & tires, loader bucket rebuilt, 3pt hitch rebuilt, new water hoses, some new small parts, filters, and fluids, all new Ford blue (new decals), with Ford gray fenders & wheels.
**** thing looks like new. Now I am afraid to get it dirty.
Back in the barn again. I am in Florida for the winter!
Have a new 60" TSC brush mower, and a new King Kutter 60" tiller to try out in the Spring.

 

[Soundguy]

Sorry I still don't know what the **** your dealership is talking about.
A dry clutch on a hydrostat should never need replaced.

likely trained by the same people ( reps? hmm... ) that put arbitray hour #'s on other parts. Yup. it's been 2000 hours, I can guarantee you that part is bad and you need to $$$$PAY$$$ us to change it. Yes.. that's right.. they all go bad at those hours no matter what use it has seen.. no no.. don't pay attention to any facts or reality.. just watch my hands...

 

[jwstewar]

Yeah, I'm probably full of it and obviously have NO practical experience with tractors......

I didn't say that, I'm just saying, I think he knows what he is talking about. Between that and the fact he farms about 1500 acres plus cows, I think he has a little practical experience too. And as to your comment about someone burning a clutch up in a day, doesn't pertain to this. Don's comment that 2000 hours is about the life is relevant due to heat cycles and such that is when he typically sees them go out. Also confirmed by my other comment from the New Holland dealership that they made.

 

[jwstewar]

Sorry I still don't know what the **** your dealership is talking about.
A dry clutch on a hydrostat should never need replaced.

That is what I thought too. But Don, the friend of mine who works for John Deere (not a dealership) said that is about the max life they see out of a dry clutch. I don't know why, he said sometimes the clutch disc will start breaking apart, sometimes the little fingers (my term, not his) will get weak and not release the clutch, sometimes the throwout bearing goes out, whatever, but that is when they have to be replaced at that time frame.

Now, I remember why I quit post here very much. Everyone wants to think they are the expert and criticize everything because they think they know better because on their one or 2 (or a few) tractors something did or didn't happen so that makes it the rule. So I guess I should also mention my wife's uncle who works also at a different New Holland dealership said the same thing. None of these folks are trying to sale me anything, they are telling me these as a friend, so I guess yeah, they are all trying to make something off of me. Not.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Sorry Chris, I think I'm going to believe him. Like I said, he is a John Deere Manufacturer's rep. He is the one called in when the dealers can't figure something out, so I have to think Don knows what he is talking about - and I'm not saying you don't. And we are not talking wearing a clutch out - because I know, if you don't know what you are doing you can burn a clutch up pretty fast. We are talking other things happening to it. I won't go into the details of how he described what happens and I would quote it wrong and then everyone would jump down my throat.

Well, I wouldnt unless he could support it in some reasonably intelligent way for your specific tractor. It sounds more like an average based on observance of tractors used by *****. ... Also a good way to sell parts and labor.
larry

 

[Jerry/MT]

Bunk...

No way to stick an arbitrary hour # on a clutch.. I've seen a rental worker ruin a clutch in 2 hours, and bought antiques with original clutches.

All depends on use.

Some tasks are more clutch intensive than others.

As Chris says clutch life depends on use. Loader work usually means more clutching that mowing or harrowing, etc. It also depends on the experience of the user. To put a hard number on clutch life without qualifying these things is meaningless. If you want to qualify all uses one should give a range of numbers 10 hrs to 6000 hrs for example. But to say the average dry clutch lasts 2000 hrs does not provide much useful info, in my opinion.
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