Another neighbor problem.

[EdKing]

<font color="blue"> Shooting shot guns less than 100' from children playing in their own yard is not going to be well recieved by me. </font>

I don't know about Alabama, but Pennsylvania has a 150 yard safety zone around all occupied buildings. You are not allowed to hunt or discharge weapons (firearms, bows) within this zone without permission of the owner/occupant. You may want to check the hunting/game laws to see if Alabama has a safety zone law.

 

[kensfarm]

In Maryland.. I believe it's 500 feet from any inhabited building.

 

[MossRoad]

<font color="blue"> Yeah right. Like he's going to maintain a neighbor's road for free. </font>

Maybe it is one of his little joys in life. I had an old guy neighbor that asked if he could mow my side lawn for me because he liked to, and wanted the excersice. He liked to work on lawns. He'd fertilize it and weed it and mow it with the nice little stripes. After a few months we were talking about it after he had a few drinks in him and I came to find that he thought he did a better job mowing it than me and, since it was next to his yard, he wanted it to look nice, like his... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Now most people would take that as an insult, but he was right. I did a terrible job mowing and didn't take care of it all that well. So I started mowing my front to match the side and his front. The whole little corner looked like some little subdivision from the 50's. It was lots of fun. I learned a few things from him and his wife. They were very good neighbors and I miss them(they passed away in their 80's). Oh yeah, one more thing... since they were so old, in the winter I started snowblowing his sidewalks, driveway and alley. We use to tease each other. In the fall I'd tell him I'd see him in the spring and in the spring he'd tell me he'd see me in the fall /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Again, I hope it works out for you. Good luck.

 

[MarkV]

It sounds like you do have a deed for the road so it is yours and he has no say in what you do to it. I would never use the word easement again when talking about the road. Now it sounds like your neighbor is confused about whose road it is so that is the first thing I would get cleared up. Have your attorney review the deed and make sure everything is in order and you are clear as to exactly what you own. A copy of the deed and a letter to the neighbor should remind him that he sold it to your Grandfather. Lets face it if you start working on the road and he thinks it is his he is going to get upset again. I would not let him mow any of the 40' you own. If he has moments where his mood changes you never know what he would do if he got hurt on your property. After the ownership is verified I would fence all of my property that was adjacent to his. Good fences make good neighbors. If he gets upset just tell him that after he got mad about the road you felt it was best to put up a fence so you knew exactly what was your responsibility to maintain.

To me it is absolutely critical to have the deed looked at before you do anything. That shouldn't cost much if anything for your attorney to look at. If for some reason it is an easement you have rather than ownership this guy could well be with in his rights to keep you from making the road larger for your bigger rigs. You don't want to tick him off if he is the one with the say about the road. These property line misunderstandings can get pretty ugly so I sure would get it verified as soon as possible.

MarkV

 

[Currmudgeon]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Even with a plane easment you should not try to keep people from making a road passable. )</font>

This appears to be the crux of the argument. Strictly, the easement permits you do do only what it says on the easement. If it is an ingress and egress easement, then it allows you to go in and out. It doesn't specifically permit you to cut the grass or trim trees.

I think you could argue that there is an implied right to perform reasonable maintenance to preserve the use of the easement. That might include, say, blading the road but not paving it. The landowner could not dig a barrier ditch across the easement.

In practice, your rights are what the court says they are.

Now that you have the legal description of the easement, the only way to progress the discussion would be to talk with a lawyer. Around here, the first visit is usually free. (Can you say "bait," I thought you could. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ) Anyway, it might be woirth a hundred bucks of advice to discover what you most likely can and cannot do.

You can't buy much ammunition for a hundred bucks, these days. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( On the subject of easments, what does the 10', 20', 30' really mean? )</font>

That's the width of the strip of land that is eased. Inside that strip, you have the rights specified on the legal description or implied by the legal description. Outside the easement, you have no rights to the land.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( So, if you have a 40' easment and they want a 18' road with ditches on both sides and your easment has no use restrictions, how can you stop them? Isn't 40 feet, 40 feet? I, see now you should make sure the restrictions are spelled out.)</font>

This is the problem with a badly written legal document. If it's open to dispute, someone will dispute it. Murphy rules. In the end, it may be up to the court to decide what rights you have with the easement. Or maybe your two lawyers can argue it out over the table.

One advantage of lawyers is that they don't care. They don't get mad at each other. They can murder each other in court and have lunch together. Last time I needed a lawyer he told me to blame all the bad stuff on him. "They hate me anyway, and I don't care. It's what I'm paid for."

All this sounds like I love lawyers. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I don't.

 

[Currmudgeon]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I did a terrible job mowing and didn't take care of it all that well. So I started mowing my front to match the side and his front. )</font>

Sounds like my neighbor. She hated my lawn, so she mowed it, sometimes. In return, I'd shovel her snow and do other bull work.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

Well, if you actually do "own" the land, it's another matter altogether. Given the confusion, I might suggest spending a few dollars with a land title company and simply asking them to do a title search. That should eliminate any doubt as to what type of ownership exists. A single survey consolidating your multiple deeds might not be a bad idea, either. You'll then have one legal description encompassing the entire property.

Once you're on solid ground on all of that, I still suggest trying to work with the guy. If he wants to mow there, let him. When you see him out there bring him a cold drink. It's easier than fighting with the guy.

 

[Currmudgeon]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( He is the one thats not friendly. As far as we know the land is paid for and we have found the deed. We have three deeds actually. We also have the original easement. My late Grandfather bought the "road" ..... 40 X 180 from him later. Unless we are missing something we have full control over the road or the 40'.)</font>

This sounds like there was an actual transfer of the land. Who pays taxes on it? If the deed was recorded at the County, you should be getting a tax bill. IT does not need to be recorded to be legal, but that makes your claim easy. Again, your attorney can advise you.

I concur with the advice that, if it is your land, then under the current situation, you should fence it. Have a surveyor set the corners and follow your county's fencing laws scrupulously.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I just can't remember him ever mowing the grass in the past or ever asking to do it. Who knows what will happen next time I mow in about 4 weeks. )</font>

It is possible that he is trying to perfect an adverse possession claim by maintaining your property. Given the current state of animosity, I'd be really tempted to put up a fence.

Anyway, if he wants to mow your grass, and you want to let him, have a formal agreement drawn up. You can pay him in blueberries, or beer or something. But having an agreement kills any adverse possession claim.

It's a major PITA, but you just can't be too carefull these days.

 

[SageBrush]

The land is zoned "timber" farm so there are no state taxes. But the road has been surveyed in the last year. My good neighbor surveyed too for his new fence. The two fences on either side of the road are 40' apart exactly. But, nasty neighbor has removed some of his fence near the county road for some unknown reason. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Now, he just wants to cut the grass. He admitted he was out of line on the issue. He says he understands the need for maintenance, but dosen't like me mowing grass... my own grass. Grass he never cuts, but if he starts cutting, thats fine with me. He asked premission to "help out", and does use the road, so maybe it will work out.

The problem is, he can not talk to us face to face. On the phone he is calm, eye to eye, he yells and screams from the start. Not normal. At least his wife is "normal". His son just stares at you and never speaks no matter what you say. Just stares. I guess he took after PaPa /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I hope he can get himself under control, its a shame to ruin 23 years of calm. He 's not very old either maybe late 50's. To young to be a crazy old man /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[RAllen]

Sagebrush

I was a peace officer in Georgia for many years. I want to urge a little caution with your nieghbor. It sounds to me he may be suffering the beginning of some type of mental problem. Couple this with guns and you have a potent mix.

I strongly urge you to have a lawyer- perhaps a title lawyer if Alabama's system of land transfer is similiar to Ga. Have the attorney clear up the EXACT status of your road, your legal rights and obligations.

Secondly put the findings in writing and have some type of proof you have communicated your position to him. (Registered letter etc.)

Contact your local law enforcement, ask about the safety zone around occupied dwellings in your county. Put the findings in another letter and make sure he gets it. I would try to personalize it with a visit to discuss your "concerns" but you need to evaluate your temperment. Perhaps you could work through his wife.

It sound to me he is getting very forgetful and might not remember any verbal understanding the two of you come up with. Any incidents should be memorialized with dates, times, witnesses. Violations of law should be reported to the local authorities.

I don't want to scare you ,but there is a remote chance this conflict could flare-up with violence and you want to make sure you do everything posible to avoid that possibility and protect your family.

Goodluck

Richard

 

[SageBrush]

Your right about being cautious. I'm ok with dealing with him unarmed. He has not given any threats of violence, if he does we will call the police. We can cause problems for him that way, but I would rather not add to the problem unless I have to. The local law inforcement knows him well /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

We are also seeking legal help concerning a restraining order if he continues to have his new fits. In the country (Alabama) you deal with a lot of gun, hunting and trespass problems. Almost everone has a gun while in the woods here... its very common. But in this guys case, not a good combination. He knows not to approach us while having a gun and he never has. Actually I don't think we have ever had an armed neighbor come buy. I know I was taught to not aproach a house armed... not vey smart. You don't want to give the wrong impression /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

He shoots on his own land, but towards a county road and somtimes at homes. I figure my other neighbor will handle it quickly if it starts again to protect his new horses. They could shoot shotguns on there land safely, if they wanted to. At least they only shoot in dove season. We will take it one day at a time and see how he acts. I'm not in AL now, but my family (uncle, brother in law etc) said he is acting ok now... I hope it will last another 20 years.

 

[jerrym4]

This sounds just like what we went though not long ago. Many years ago, my father sold an easement on a portion of the property. This is an easement, not a sale of the land. Well the company we sold the easement to were bought out by a much bigger company that had some plans for that easement. I didn't like their plans so my lawyers went to work.

The original easement documents filed with the county did not detail the specifics of the easement. After a long fight in court the company that now has the easement has to give me a one month advance notice before they come on my property (even though it is their easement) and they are only allowed to use it five times a year. I made the easement worthless to them. I believe my property value has increased because of this now detailed easement.

Your neighbor may be planning the same for you.

 

[SageBrush]

Not in my case.

 

[PBMAX]

I don't know about on-line but my wifes sister and husband have an easement (about a 1/8 ml long atleast) to there property which is 37acres and land locked in blount county, AL. I'll ask if they know of any thing. they went thru the this loop just a few years ago... I may be a few days...

 

[SageBrush]

Thanks.

We also have an easement issue with another neighbor, and don't know exactly what we should do. They never asked for written permission to use one of our roads. Instead of building their own drive way they are coming of one of ours. They add a good bit of traffic and we have noticed the road getting rough in much less time. I'm not sure if allowing them to continue this way will allow them to claim something. Their land butts the county road, so they are not land locked, just prefer our drive. I don't live on the farm land full time, I always notice this stuff after they do it. This person is related to my problem neighbor... go figure /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[SageBrush]

But, it is nice to hear about the "little" guy winning foe a change.

 

[Kelvin]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Are all egress easements bought? )</font>

No. One person can legally obtain easement access to another person's property, even against the property owner's desires, merely by routine usage of said property. That's why it is important that when someone has routine access to your property that you block that access at least one day per year, and document that blockage.

At least that's what I learned from a Real Estate course that I took back in the 1970s. For current easement and other real estate rules (beyond a lawyer's advise), it might be good to go down to a college bookstore and purchase an "up-to-date" text book applicable to Alabama that is used in the Real Estate classes.

I bring this up for a reason. I originally thought that you currently have an "Easement" while it now appears that your family actually purchased the property affected by the original easement. If your "nasty" neighbor is using the roadway that you OWN, and he uses it on a regular basis, then he can possibly make a legal claim for an easement to access YOUR property/road.

Good Luck,
Kelvin

 

[SageBrush]

Your right, we are looking into it now with a Lawyer.

We are concerned about his daily use of the road. I go this week to the tree farm, it will be interesting to see what the neighbor has been up to. Hopefully we can continue to use it together, but he will have to agree to something legally binding. He has blocked up one of my drainge ditches by pushing a driveway in.... So, the water has no where to go and the water is washing out the road slowly. I don't think he did it on purpose, just not very smart. He seems to be willing to work on the road together now, but I want to find out about the legal issues that may cause first. But, everthing is quiet again, maybe we can keep it that way. Still don't know why he blew up, he never brings it up now. I'm trying my best to be calm and let the lawyer handle it. I think its worth the money to make sure all is how we think it is. So far, so good.

 

[SageBrush]

The lawyer says we control it 100%. Our property, now we are looking into the legal issues of the neighbor using the road on a daily basis. We are having a new single deed/title and plot plan made up. We have three now, from three purchases over the years. Well, thats a load off, we still don't know if we can block him, since we have been giving him verbal permission to use it. Thats next, the lawyer is researching it. I hope that wasn't a mistake. But, him using the road is not an issue, the yelling and screaming after I mow my own grass and fill my own pot holes is. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MarkV]

SageBrush,

Sounds to me that you handled things exactly right. The legal advice clarified what you own, how much control you have and what you have to do to make sure it will stay that way in the future. Best of all you have waited for the facts before confronting the neighbor. Now you can concentrate on keeping the peace while knowing you can control the situation if you have to.

Well done,
MarkV