Another ? about hay equipment

[L_Nicholson]

Hi All,

I'm trying to get some info to see if it is cost effective to buy some hay equipment and be more self sufficient. The farmer that leases my ground made me mad and I've finally had enough to start trying to figure something else out.

I have about 20 ac of hay ground and I have a JD 4400 (35 hp, 28 pto hp). I'm wondering if there is equipment out there that would match up to my tractor size and produce 1,000 to 1,500 lbs bales and if not what equipment is out there that will give me the biggest round bale that my tractor can handle.

Currently I only need about 7 tons of hay but as my livestock herd grows I will need more and I'm tired of depending on someone who has doesn't follow though with what they say and then screw you over on hay prices after I helped him hay this year.... no... I'm not bitter...

I sure would appreciate any words of wisdom anyone has to offer.
Thanks
Lee

 

[ddivinia]

I hear ya - depending on others can be a pain. Do you use round or square bales now?

What kind of hay?

D.

 

[L_Nicholson]

I'm using round bales of grass with a light mix of clovers. Currently I've been getting 6' bales and stressing out my tractor. These bales have been from the Lessee off my property.

 

[JESSE1]

I have a JD 4400 and have used it for pulling a rake a few times. Not many choices in hay equipment but these AGRIQUIP.com :: Star have been discussed here before. I know nothing about price, quality or who sells them. The 4400 is a good compact tractor but there's no way it will run a full size baler.

 

[L_Nicholson]

I figured my 4400 wouldn't handle a full size round baler. IF I were to upgrade to a tractor that could.... would the 4x20 series do it? I don't know if my belly mower would fit on one of those or not.

I'd like to here from those who are using those mid size round balers.

Also what is the minimum HP for a square baler and how big can you make those bales?

 

[art]

Don't think about trading yet!!! A four wheel drive tractor is normally worth about twenty horse when it comes to a loader. It is also in loose conditions so why not just buy a more economical two wheel drive tractor about twenty horsepower larger for your second tractor to make life easier. Then you have enough power to do your pto work and can carry a three point spear.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I second Art's suggestion. $11-$15k will get you a nice 2wd tractor. I paid $15k for my 7710-II and it was in great shape and had a cab and was suppose to be 87 pto hp but was turned up to 120 pto hp. You can find 70-90 pto hp tractors in 2wd with cabs and without all over the place from the late 80's for very reasonable prices. Smaller 50 pto hp tractors bring as much if not more then the 70-90 hp tractors because everyone wants a tractor in that size range. And for haying a 70-90 hp tractor will do just about any type of haying you will want to do and not even sweat.

 

[Egon]

Will any of this hay be sold? How will it be stored?

 

[L_Nicholson]

Thanks guys for the info.

I will have a surplus of hay so I will probably sell the extra. Depending on the size of bale I end up with will determine how it's stored.

For smaller bales I can store it in the hay loft. I've got a large barn with lots of space if I need it.

If I end up with larger bales I'll be stacking it out side.

 

[WTA]

I'd recommend at least a 90 horse tractor for hay work.
I have done it on a square baler here with a 30 horse and a 45 horse and it wasn't fun. My old farmall super C was a great little tractor and after I restored it and built the engine it had 30 horsepower and was plenty strong enough to run the baler but every time that big flywheel came around on it I felt like I was going to come out of the seat. That was brutal on the backside. Probably not too safe either.
With my new tractor I don't even notice the baler is behind me. The cabon the new one really helps too. There is almost no haying equipment that I am aware of that I can't run with this tractor too.

 

[HayDR]

Hi All,

I'm trying to get some info to see if it is cost effective to buy some hay equipment and be more self sufficient. The farmer that leases my ground made me mad and I've finally had enough to start trying to figure something else out.

I have about 20 ac of hay ground and I have a JD 4400 (35 hp, 28 pto hp). I'm wondering if there is equipment out there that would match up to my tractor size and produce 1,000 to 1,500 lbs bales and if not what equipment is out there that will give me the biggest round bale that my tractor can handle.

Currently I only need about 7 tons of hay but as my livestock herd grows I will need more and I'm tired of depending on someone who has doesn't follow though with what they say and then screw you over on hay prices after I helped him hay this year.... no... I'm not bitter...

I sure would appreciate any words of wisdom anyone has to offer.
Thanks
Lee

You can mow & rake hay with you 4400 but unless you go to a micro round baler your tractor does not have enough HP and mass to operate any current round baler. HayMAXX is working on a small round baler that needs 25 PTO HP and 2800 LBS due to be released Fall 2009.

The HayMAXX drum mowers are currently available for compact tractors with 20 PTO HP. Usually you can get someone to custom bale your hay for you. If you ask a farmer to mow, rake & bale your hay, that ties that farmer down to a 3 day period where just custom baling only requires an afternoon.

 

[steveky]

Look at a Hesston 530 or a Case IH 4820, these are small round balers. I think they make about a 500 lb bale. not sure if they'll work for you or not. May be worth a look.

 

[rambler]

I think I've talked to you on another forum, sorry if I repeat....

If small squares are the way you want to go, you can find 35-40 hp 'real' ag tractors for under $3000 to run a square baler & pull a hayrack or basket. Small squares are much more work, but more pay in most areas.

You would need a mower of some sort ($300-3000), a siderake (($500 will get you a good one) a baler ($500-2000) and a tractor (2000-6000), and a hayrack/bale wagon ($400-1500). Keep your little tractor for raking & running the bale elevator, etc. Should be able to do 20 acres of hay for under $6000 - can spend more if you have to of course. Buy a good baler that works, spend your money there, everything else you can work with/ trade up as you have money.

For round bales, get an 80+ hp tractor, while there are smaller round balers out there, it's putz work chasing after all those little bales, still need a big tractor to lift them safely anyhow, etc. If you go round, go big don't fool around.

--->Paul

 

[L_Nicholson]

Thanks Paul for the helpful figures! I'm still running numbers but it almost seems cheaper to buy from some of these folks who only sell hay. There is a guy in the area who has good hay (alfalfa mix) for 35.00 / 5' bale in a non drought year. Everyone is short on hay this year.

I've also been thinking about having a guy row crop the hay fields at a much higher lease than hay ground (obviously) and still buy the hay instead of producing it myself.

I have several options I think and it just boils down to how much I want to fool with things I guess.

 

[chh]

Some will probably argue about this, but I can assure it would be cheaper to just buy hay. $35 dollars a bale x 14 (1000 lb bales=7 tons)=$490.. You really would have a hard time getting you investment back out of 20 acres of hay. Leasing it for something else or using it yourself would probably net you more. I took a Master Cattlemens class out of Oklahoma State University last year. Their figuires on breakeven for your own equipment was about 500 round bales. An older square baler and an older tractor and equipment would lower the intial cost, but a breakeven would still be pretty high.

 

[ddivinia]

Thanks Paul for the helpful figures! I'm still running numbers but it almost seems cheaper to buy from some of these folks who only sell hay. There is a guy in the area who has good hay (alfalfa mix) for 35.00 / 5' bale in a non drought year. Everyone is short on hay this year.

I've also been thinking about having a guy row crop the hay fields at a much higher lease than hay ground (obviously) and still buy the hay instead of producing it myself.

I have several options I think and it just boils down to how much I want to fool with things I guess.

The numbers don't always tell everything - that is the challenge.

Buying hay - who knows what you are getting. Fireants, weeds, low protein. Then again - it might be perfectly good hay. Always risk there.

Leasing your place out for row crops. Some things to look out for are how they leave the land when they are done. You won't have any grass. You more than likely will have crop stubble and a bunch of rows.

Probably the best advice is either find another custom hay person or maybe do parts of it yourself. Cutting and rake are pretty straight forward. The baler piece gets expensive in a hurry.

D.

 

[nomad]

Lee, I understand your goal is to have the hay by spending the less.
OK, here are two perfect machines (mower and rake) I plan to stop using soon. They are second hands, but, newer than the news. These will do the work. All you need is HORSE POWER.

 

[chh]

Great pics Nomad! The mower and rake I have like that don't look near that nice. Of course they have been sitting in the bushes for at least 60 years. Used to hear some great stories about a certain mule and that sulky rake.

 

[L_Nicholson]

Nomad: lol.. Horse Power is right!

ddivinia: All very good points. I've tried to do my home work and the tentative arrangements I would have in writing with the row crops is to have the fields put back to grass... better pasture than what I have now. Right now it is mostly fescue with a light (very light) mix of clover. I'm actually working with the farmer that I bought my livestock from. We have been working together for about 8 months now and I feel comfortable with his way of operations.... (unlike the present neighbor / farmer).

He runs about 300 nannies and about 75 head of cows and basically does the same thing by running his volume of livestock up to compensate for the cost of hay. And by cost I'm talking about ALL expenses of machinery and time. He buys hay from the same guy I would be getting it from and has been getting it from him for years. He buys it and the seller stores it undercover till he is ready to pick it up.

If I did all the cutting and the raking I would once again have to depend on someone to the n-th day..... I don't think I want the headache.... I could buy 6 bales of hay for what I make a day at work.

 

[ddivinia]

Nomad: lol.. Horse Power is right!

ddivinia: All very good points. I've tried to do my home work and the tentative arrangements I would have in writing with the row crops is to have the fields put back to grass... better pasture than what I have now. Right now it is mostly fescue with a light (very light) mix of clover. I'm actually working with the farmer that I bought my livestock from. We have been working together for about 8 months now and I feel comfortable with his way of operations.... (unlike the present neighbor / farmer).

He runs about 300 nannies and about 75 head of cows and basically does the same thing by running his volume of livestock up to compensate for the cost of hay. And by cost I'm talking about ALL expenses of machinery and time. He buys hay from the same guy I would be getting it from and has been getting it from him for years. He buys it and the seller stores it undercover till he is ready to pick it up.

If I did all the cutting and the raking I would once again have to depend on someone to the n-th day..... I don't think I want the headache.... I could buy 6 bales of hay for what I make a day at work.

You are thinking right.

I have 100 acres of coastal we planted last year. We got 133 bales off of it. I figure this coming year it will be 500+ rounds bales. It should be an interesting year.

D.