Amazon?

[PuffyC]

I have a cousin working at trader joes to get medical benefits, that is such a big expense, which is why Amazon can get people with their benefit offer, while most local businesses can't even get a nibble from their help wanted ads.
To a new family, benefits wins over an extra $5/hour......

Quality benefits cost an employer around $8 an hour all up - that's a good healthcare plan where your family can actually afford to see a doctor when needed, 401k, stock plan, etc. I've seen so many young folks pass up an offer because another was higher but they never take into account the benefits. It's completely lost on them how making $20 an hour is better than $25 if that $25 an hour job has no benefits.

My grandparents were a 2 income family working for GM back in the 60s and they lived in a 2 bed 1 bath house that was maybe 900 sq ft and they shared a single car. They never complained and thought they had it pretty good. A 2 income family working the Amazon warehouse today is pulling in $60k a year plus benefits minimum, probably closer to $75k with any competence and experience. Could they afford a 900 sq ft 2 bed 1 bath house and one basic domestic sedan? Absolutely, but they would consider that an unacceptably poor standard of living and be rioting in the streets. That's the real difference between yesterday and today.

 

[Dftodd]

What is your hourly pay? What other outside benefits are you receiving?
I supported a large family on one income too but I made more than $20 / hr.

There is a big difference supporting a family with 2 kids versus supporting and raising a sports team.

You get that break once they are out of diapers and in school. Then they eat you out of house and home once they become teenagers.

You on the other hand dealt with diapers and the Jethro level appetites of growing teenagers at the same time.

It's comparing apples to aardvark's.

You also need to factor in the "Cost" of living in that area as well.

Several of us have already told you that yes it's doable. And yes "We" did it. With no outside assistance

 

[Dftodd]

Quality benefits cost an employer around $8 an hour all up - that's a good healthcare plan where your family can actually afford to see a doctor when needed, 401k, stock plan, etc. I've seen so many young folks pass up an offer because another was higher but they never take into account the benefits. It's completely lost on them how making $20 an hour is better than $25 if that $25 an hour job has no benefits.

My grandparents were a 2 income family working for GM back in the 60s and they lived in a 2 bed 1 bath house that was maybe 900 sq ft and they shared a single car. They never complained and thought they had it pretty good. A 2 income family working the Amazon warehouse today is pulling in $60k a year plus benefits minimum, probably closer to $75k with any competence and experience. Could they afford a 900 sq ft 2 bed 1 bath house and one basic domestic sedan? Absolutely, but they would consider that an unacceptably poor standard of living and be rioting in the streets. That's the real difference between yesterday and today.

Well said and stated

It's all about keeping up with the Jones.

 

[Midniteoyl]

What is your hourly pay? What other outside benefits are you receiving?
I supported a large family on one income too but I made more than $20 / hr.

I moved here at $17.35/hr, no other outside benefits at the time. Didn't even get state or federal help when an accident forced us to take in our g'kids. No food stamps, no nothing.

I moved from Wisconsin where I lived for 10 years because the property taxes (all taxes, really) had gone up to over $4000/yr for the 2000sq.ft home on a little plot and I couldn't afford that. Taxes on this 14 acre in Indiana was less than $2000/yr (still is), it was about the same mortgage payment, I found employment (but for $0.20/hr *less* than I was making in Wisconsin), and it was still close enough to her family in Illinois.

Full disclosure - *After* I moved here I found Indiana will waive a portion of those property taxes for Veterans, so I did that. Think at the time it was 35% waived. So if you consider that 'help', then sure, I had 'help' after I already reduced my tax outlay and was more comfortable than I was before. (Also, didnt use VA Home Loan guarantees as the regular rates were better at the time, so no 'help' there either.)

 

[TheMan419]

I moved here at $17.35/hr, no other outside benefits at the time. Didn't even get state or federal help when an accident forced us to take in our g'kids. No food stamps, no nothing.

I moved from Wisconsin where I lived for 10 years because the property taxes (all taxes, really) had gone up to over $4000/yr for the 2000sq.ft home on a little plot and I couldn't afford that. Taxes on this 14 acre in Indiana was less than $2000/yr (still is), it was about the same mortgage payment, I found employment (but for $0.20/hr *less* than I was making in Wisconsin), and it was still close enough to her family in Illinois.

Full disclosure - *After* I moved here I found Indiana will waive a portion of those property taxes for Veterans, so I did that. Think at the time it was 35% waived. So if you consider that 'help', then sure, I had 'help' after I already reduced my tax outlay and was more comfortable than I was before. (Also, didnt use VA Home Loan guarantees as the regular rates were better at the time, so no 'help' there either.)

VA benefits are not help. You earned them. Just like Social Security retirment.... you paid into that.

 

[sree251]

The difference here is that my salary was fair (found out later I was making below the national average) but given my family size I was afforded gov't assistance at times.

Why would you need assistance on an engineer's salary? I don't think any engineer today could qualify for assistance drawing $70,000 a year (West Virginia).

 

[MinnesotaEric]

So you are paying contractors, not employees. Totally different things and not a comparison.

The last hourly I paid $100 an hour because it was slinging work but I had bid the job as a lump sum.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Maybe so, but when you make comments like these;



It shows how unwilling you are to share those benefits. "At least 20$/hr" works out to under 7, once they cover their expenses.

Wow. You just made a hasty leap. What expenses?

 

[tradosaurus]

Why would you need assistance on an engineer's salary? I don't think any engineer today could qualify for assistance drawing $70,000 a year (West Virginia).

I was making $53K/yr back in 2003 so my effective earned income on my tax return was about $23k after child tax credits for 7-9 kids. So that's why I paid no federal income tax.

 

[sree251]

I was making $53K/yr back in 2003 so my effective earned income on my tax return was about $23k after child tax credits for 7-9 kids. So that's why I paid no federal income tax.

I get that. Back in 2003 when it all began, you didn't have 9 kids to feed. $53k is more than enough for you, wife and a couple of kids to live on without assistance. You could even do that now on that salary.

 

[Oaktree]

My grandparents were a 2 income family working for GM back in the 60s and they lived in a 2 bed 1 bath house that was maybe 900 sq ft and they shared a single car. They never complained and thought they had it pretty good. A 2 income family working the Amazon warehouse today is pulling in $60k a year plus benefits minimum, probably closer to $75k with any competence and experience. Could they afford a 900 sq ft 2 bed 1 bath house and one basic domestic sedan? Absolutely, but they would consider that an unacceptably poor standard of living and be rioting in the streets. That's the real difference between yesterday and today.

Not to mention other modern day "necessities" like $1000 I-phones with unlimited service for every member of the household, a bunch of subscription streaming services, etc.
It's easy to call corporations greedy, but there's plenty of that to go around.

 

[sree251]

It's easy to call corporations greedy, but there's plenty of that to go around

Quite right. Even the homeless guy outside Trader Joe's this morning was wearing Nike's. In India, they would go barefoot even in winter.

 

[Dftodd]

Not to mention other modern day "necessities" like $1000 I-phones with unlimited service for every member of the household, a bunch of subscription streaming services, etc.
It's easy to call corporations greedy, but there's plenty of that to go around.

Forgot the $500 per pair of ripped jeans, 1,000 watches, credit cards, finance anything and everything.

Then complains about being broke all the time.

We got one of those at work. Spends, spends, spends. Then finances more stuff. Then says he needs a raise cause he can't pay his bills. his answer to saving money is adding another car payment

He got bit by that gotta have it this second bug.

Sole breadwinner for his family, and both have the spending habit thats absolutely insane.

 

[Jstpssng]

Wow. You just made a hasty leap. What expenses?

Those which I mentioned previously; Tools, truck, insurance- (i.e. Comp, GL) the employer's share of SS. (+-7.5%)

That's just for starters, there is time involved with talking to you about the job whether he does it or not. Do you pay for travel time?
Are they getting a full day's work, or going to your site for 3 hours, then finding something else to do?
How long does it take to get paid once the work is done? Do you pay them in a timely fashion or make them wait until you close on the property? Sitting on a bill costs money...

 

[JDZ735M]

The day's of company loyalty are over.

It's never loyalty from the company to the employee or from the employee to the company. Legal responsibility exists.

But loyalty is limited: individual to individual.

 

[tradosaurus]

It's never loyalty from the company to the employee or from the employee to the company. Legal responsibility exists.

But loyalty is limited: individual to individual.

It used to be loyalty from both sides. Now companies expect you to be an enthusiastic cheerleader while trying everything possible to underpay you.
My Dad retired from Phillips Petroleum after 34 yrs of service in 1984 with a pension. He told me back then that the days of company pensions were coming to a close and companies were looking more toward the bottom line than investing in their employees.
When he started work in 1950 he knew it would be the place to retire as his company spent 2 years developing him as an engineer.

 

[tradosaurus]

Maybe so, but when you make comments like these;



It shows how unwilling you are to share those benefits. "At least 20$/hr" works out to under 7, once they cover their expenses."

More proof that you can't live comfortably on less than $20 / hr without outside help such as family or government assistance.

 

[GeneV]

It used to be loyalty from both sides. Now companies expect you to be an enthusiastic cheerleader while trying everything possible to underpay you.
My Dad retired from Phillips Petroleum after 34 yrs of service in 1984 with a pension. He told me back then that the days of company pensions were coming to a close and companies were looking more toward the bottom line than investing in their employees.
When he started work in 1950 he knew it would be the place to retire as his company spent 2 years developing him as an engineer.

That goes both ways, employees don't stick around. The average American now switches entire careers a bunch of times in his/her working years, let alone jobs.

 

[tallyho8]

And even that $70K home 5 yrs ago would require money for upkeep. I bought one of those $70k houses (built in 1955) back in 2003. I probably put in about $50K after I sold it and that was just minor upgrades. Let's face it even 5 yrs ago, a family trying to live on $20 / hr was most likely needing gov't assistance, renting, barely making a used car payment and not able to save for retirement.

This goes back to Amazon treating their warehouse employees like slaves, watching every minute of their work and punishing them if their hourly production slacks off just a little. And benefits are worthless if you can't afford the health insurance premiums. Better to be on gov't assistance.

I'm really surprised that a union hasn't been able to form at either Amazon or Wal-mart.

Good point, but I would think that would be crushed immediately.

They are trying again:

6.​

AMAZON UNION ELECTIONS​

Two union elections will take place next month at Amazon warehouses. Workers in Staten Island, N.Y. and Bessemer, Ala. have come to an agreement with the company to hold votes in late March that would unionize their respective workforces. This is the second attempt at a union drive for Bessemer workers. The first one failed, but the National Labor Review Board ordered a rerun after determining that Amazon had interfered in the process. If successful, the unions would be the first in the U.S. for Amazon. THE VERGE

 

[Hay Dude]

They are trying again:

6.​

AMAZON UNION ELECTIONS​

Two union elections will take place next month at Amazon warehouses. Workers in Staten Island, N.Y. and Bessemer, Ala. have come to an agreement with the company to hold votes in late March that would unionize their respective workforces. This is the second attempt at a union drive for Bessemer workers. The first one failed, but the National Labor Review Board ordered a rerun after determining that Amazon had interfered in the process. If successful, the unions would be the first in the U.S. for Amazon. THE VERGE

Wonder why they’d interfere in the process?
Anti-union? Not a company “for the people”?