Amazon?

[MinnesotaEric]

Do you pay the cost of their medical insurance, social security ... like Amazon does?

I would if they were W2 employees. So far everybody is 1099 if they bill enough labor which to date has been my roofing and siding folks.

 

[Jstpssng]

I would if they were W2 employees. So far everybody is 1099 if they bill enough labor which to date has been my roofing and siding folks.

You’re comparing apples to oranges.
Earning $100 self employed is like making $35 when somebody else is covering SS, GL, et.al.

 

[Dftodd]

How much do you believe in total annual pay is a comfortable lifestyle?

Like I said before. It depends on where you live and the cost of living for that area.

 

[Dftodd]

We had homes for less than $70K for sale five years ago, but today not so much. A starter home now is at least double that, needs work, and because of a lack of inventory, gets multiple offers here in BFE.

If you noticed, I said before covid houses were cheaper to buy then rent.

I can tell you, the market won't be able to support what we are seeing in the housing market for too much longer.

At some point we are gonna be seeing another crash.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Like I said before. It depends on where you live and the cost of living for that area.

You said that $20 an hour in the midwest is comfortable. That is only 38K a year less tax.

Starter homes have been generally cheaper to buy than to rent for the last decade. The trouble we have now is debt to income and loan to value issues.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

You’re comparing apples to oranges.
Earning $100 self employed is like making $35 when somebody else is covering SS, GL, et.al.

I'm also well aware of the benefits of being self-employed.

 

[Jstpssng]

I'm also well aware of the benefits of being self-employed.

Maybe so, but when you make comments like these;

I would if they were W2 employees. So far everybody is 1099 if they bill enough labor which to date has been my roofing and siding folks.

FWIW, since I try to not be a hypocrite (I try), I pay people working hourly for me at least $20 but oftentimes, way, way more than that (I'm a real estate broker so I occasionally need people to drop everything and knock out a punch list so we can go to close).

It shows how unwilling you are to share those benefits. "At least 20$/hr" works out to under 7, once they cover their expenses.

 

[tradosaurus]

We had homes for less than $70K for sale five years ago, but today not so much. A starter home now is at least double that, needs work, and because of a lack of inventory, gets multiple offers here in BFE.

And even that $70K home 5 yrs ago would require money for upkeep. I bought one of those $70k houses (built in 1955) back in 2003. I probably put in about $50K after I sold it and that was just minor upgrades. Let's face it even 5 yrs ago, a family trying to live on $20 / hr was most likely needing gov't assistance, renting, barely making a used car payment and not able to save for retirement.

This goes back to Amazon treating their warehouse employees like slaves, watching every minute of their work and punishing them if their hourly production slacks off just a little. And benefits are worthless if you can't afford the health insurance premiums. Better to be on gov't assistance.

I'm really surprised that a union hasn't been able to form at either Amazon or Wal-mart.

 

[tradosaurus]

I live in a low cost of living state. Even here on $20/hr even as a single person you are not going to live in anything approaching the lap of luxury. You would have a small apartment and a basic car if you wanted to have any savings toward retirement at the end of the month. Certainly not a rural lifestyle like most of us on here live.

I raised a family of 11 (including myself) on an engineers salary and one income from 1990 to 2014. My wife went back to work that year.
The difference here is that my salary was fair (found out later I was making below the national average) but given my family size I was afforded gov't assistance at times. When my 7th child was born 2 months premature then entire cost of his and my wife's medical bill was 100% covered because we met a certain income threshold given our family size. That covered almost a million dollars back in 2001. I paid no federal income tax (given my family size) from 2005-2014. I also came into a decent inheritance when my Dad passed and my wife came into an inheritance when her aunt passed so we definitely had help along the way.

So when I hear a story of someone buying a home and living comfortably on less than $20 / hr I assume that person had help.

 

[Hay Dude]

And even that $70K home 5 yrs ago would require money for upkeep. I bought one of those $70k houses (built in 1955) back in 2003. I probably put in about $50K after I sold it and that was just minor upgrades. Let's face it even 5 yrs ago, a family trying to live on $20 / hr was most likely needing gov't assistance, renting, barely making a used car payment and not able to save for retirement.

This goes back to Amazon treating their warehouse employees like slaves, watching every minute of their work and punishing them if their hourly production slacks off just a little. And benefits are worthless if you can't afford the health insurance premiums. Better to be on gov't assistance.

I'm really surprised that a union hasn't been able to form at either Amazon or Wal-mart.

Good point, but I would think that would be crushed immediately.

 

[TheMan419]

I raised a family of 11 (including myself) on an engineers salary and one income from 1990 to 2014. My wife went back to work that year.
The difference here is that my salary was fair (found out later I was making below the national average) but given my family size I was afforded gov't assistance at times. When my 7th child was born 2 months premature then entire cost of his and my wife's medical bill was 100% covered because we met a certain income threshold given our family size. That covered almost a million dollars back in 2001. I paid no federal income tax (given my family size) from 2005-2014. I also came into a decent inheritance when my Dad passed and my wife came into an inheritance when her aunt passed so we definitely had help along the way.

So when I hear a story of someone buying a home and living comfortably on less than $20 / hr I assume that person had help.

No offense, but so you didn't support your family on your salary. You had help from the tax payer and then inheritance.

 

[tradosaurus]

No offense, but so you didn't support your family on your salary. You had help from the tax payer and then inheritance.

That was my point. I was making more than $20 / hr (not much more) early on and still needed help. You ain't making it on less than $20/hr, sole income, and owning a house without some help.

 

[kenmbz]

My wife was looking at California homes by where her relatives live.
She started wondering how people were buying those small million dollar homes.
Seems the bank is playing the same games that crashed the housing market a few years back.
Low down payments and >5 times house cost to salary.

I think the cheapest homes in my area are $350K, but I see some starter homes a few towns over for 250K.
I certainly would not have been able to afford even those on my early salary when I was an electrical engineer.
Even adjusting for inflation.....

I have a cousin working at trader joes to get medical benefits, that is such a big expense, which is why Amazon can get people with their benefit offer, while most local businesses can't even get a nibble from their help wanted ads.
To a new family, benefits wins over an extra $5/hour......

 

[Dftodd]

My wife was looking at California homes by where her relatives live.
She started wondering how people were buying those small million dollar homes.
Seems the bank is playing the same games that crashed the housing market a few years back.
Low down payments and >5 times house cost to salary.

I think the cheapest homes in my area are $350K, but I see some starter homes a few towns over for 250K.
I certainly would not have been able to afford even those on my early salary when I was an electrical engineer.
Even adjusting for inflation.....

I have a cousin working at trader joes to get medical benefits, that is such a big expense, which is why Amazon can get people with their benefit offer, while most local businesses can't even get a nibble from their help wanted ads.
To a new family, benefits wins over an extra $5/hour......

Brand new homes in a nice neighborhood were starting at $130k just before covid struck.

Sign a contract with the builder, pick your floor plan, paint, upgrades, close and move in about 8 months later.

Not sure where they are at now. Sure it's double at the moment. But the locals remember what they were being advertised for originally.

At some point, the market isn't gonna support the current price gouging. Especially once the influx of people from the more restrictive states slows down to a trickle.

Then someone is gonna get a rude awaking when they realize they paid double or triple what it is actually worth.

 

[sree251]

How much do you believe in total annual pay is a comfortable lifestyle?

What do you believe living where you are, say for a family of two?

 

[Midniteoyl]

50 years ago on one income on less than $20/hr?

Try that now.

Dude, I'm only 53 now... And yes, 1 income.

 

[tradosaurus]

Dude, I'm only 53 now... And yes, 1 income.

What is your hourly pay? What other outside benefits are you receiving?
I supported a large family on one income too but I made more than $20 / hr.

 

[Midniteoyl]

I live in a low cost of living state. Even here on $20/hr even as a single person you are not going to live in anything approaching the lap of luxury. You would have a small apartment and a basic car if you wanted to have any savings toward retirement at the end of the month. Certainly not a rural lifestyle like most of us on here live.

Um... I'm in Indiana.

 

[Midniteoyl]

I would if they were W2 employees. So far everybody is 1099 if they bill enough labor which to date has been my roofing and siding folks.

So you are paying contractors, not employees. Totally different things and not a comparison.

 

[lman]

That was my point. I was making more than $20 / hr (not much more) early on and still needed help. You ain't making it on less than $20/hr, sole income, and owning a house without some help.

We don't all have 9 kids. That would be a big factor on how much money you need to support the home. A couple with no children and two incomes would obviously need much less than a family of 11.