Advice on Trailer Purchase

   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #21  
I appreciated your point about "beware of trailer salesman" as I am looking for one right now. What I found is about twice the price of what you mentioned! It certainly looks like a real strong trailer, so I'd apprciate any comments.

From a local trailer shop in southern New Hampshire (ain't much cheap around here anymore); 6'x18' lowboy flatbed, frame is 2x3x.25", tongue is 3x5x.25" and comes in under bed about 18" or so (the base of the "A"). 5' swing ramps with kickers (nice locking mechanism, ramps can be removed by sliding out the main pin). 10,000 lb GVW, dual 6000 lb axles, dual brakes, e-z lube axles, 5' tongue, 6 ply tires, brake lights completely encased in 1/4" steel, stake pockets all round, PT deck, fancy paint and lots of reflective tape, etc.

The bad news; he is asking $3465. 20' is $50 more. I went looking for the 10,000 lb rating figurein it gives me room to grow and is good for hauling rocks too. He is quoting $90.00 for an installed brake controller. This is a much strong trailer then others I've looked at but wanted to bounce this price off the experts first.
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #22  
AndyR -

I understand - it can be "no fun" running the "trailer gauntlet." I've had some bad experiences with trailer salesmen in the past (just like car dealers) so "buyer beware" definitely applies!

I read your description and admit I'm a little confused on some of the specifics. I went out and looked (measured) mine so you could compare. I'm sure that some of the differences are simply due to style, but my "gut" reaction is that they are asking too much. Prices could certainly be higher up North, but some things just seem a little "out of bounds."

<font color=blue>6'x18' lowboy flatbed</font color=blue>

/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif Sounds awful narrow. Most utility trailers I've seen run at least 80" wide (mine is 84") Are you sure it isn't 7' wide? If it was only 6', for that heavy-duty a utility trailer, I'd say it is "unique" /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif. 84" has worked well for me - tractor/implements/vehicles, etc. I wouldn't want narrower.

<font color=blue>frame is 2x3x.25" </font color=blue>

/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif WOW! That's pretty thick steel for steel box tubing. I've seen 1/4" angle iron, but not box tubing - course I don't weld THAT much. That would certainly add to the strength, but also to the trailer's weight - something to consider. The box tubing on my trailer is 2" x 3.5" and a little over 1/8" thick (maybe 10 gauge?)

<font color=blue>tongue...comes in under bed about 18"</font color=blue>

Interesting. A little different than how mine is built (the best way to describe it is there are 2 "frames". The "lower frame" is essentially a box with a big triangle (tongue) and the springs attach to it. On top, the "upper frame" is the floor "frame" - basically a ladder assembly (same box tube) on 22" centers with the steel plate (1/8") welded to it. I assume that the "A" frame of the tongue on the one you're looking at is welded/integral to the rest of the frame (assuming you have only one). As long as they are good welds, I don't see any problem with 18".

<font color=blue>5' tongue</font color=blue>

That seems a little long to me, but that's just me - course it could help in cornering/backing assuming that the angle is rather narrow at the hitch (e.g. angle between 2 tongue rails).

<font color=blue>brake lights completely encased in 1/4" steel</font color=blue>

/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif WOW! Heavy duty for sure!

<font color=blue>...stake pockets all round, PT deck, fancy paint and lots of reflective tape, etc</font color=blue>

You can get stake pockets from <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.northerntool.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/NTE_LLSEARCH.d2w/report?PHOTOS=on&prlngth=12727.0000>Northern Tools</A> for about $3.50 each. If you are looking to save some $$$, you might consider putting some of these "do-dads" on yourself.

As far as the pressure treated deck, I've always liked steel myself, although wood works fine too for most things. If you are using your trailer for rocks, well, they may gouge the wood. Course if you use steel, some of the paint will get scratched off so rust will come in to play. Just up to you I suppose.

<font color=blue>He is quoting $90.00 for an installed brake controller</font color=blue>

That sounds reasonable, although he is probably going to put in a $50 controller, so if you want to save some $$$, you can do it yourself in an hour or 2 pretty easily (even quicker if your truck is "pre-wired")

Again, it's hard to give a true "opinion" without seeing it close up, but based on what you said, it still seems a little high to me. I spent $1700 on mine, although "upgrading" to 2 brake axles (vs. the 1 it came with) added some to the overall cost. Mine doesn't have some of the things you mention, but I did get extra d-rings installed (6), a spare, recessed tie-downs (6), etc. all built to my specs. In my gut, at least, I can't see where adding the other stuff (the ramps you mention, 6000# axles, stake pockets, etc.) should add $1500 to the cost. (I could see the frame, if 1/4" thick box steel, could add some to the cost though.)

Here's a <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.trailersforless.com/and_dump_EQ7185T_trailers.html>link</A> with a trailer that sounds kindof like the one you describe. Not sure what they are asking for it, but it might be interesting to see what prices you can get over the Internet for "equivalent" trailers - then you could take it back to your local guy and say - "I'd much rather buy local - what can you do since I can get the same thing for $xxxx if I order it." Just an idea.../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #23  
That is similar to the one I just bought. Mine is a 2001 I bought used for 1,000 bucks today. It has a steel deck and is very heavy duty.
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #24  
I checked the sheet today and you are correct - the trailer is about 7' wide. The frame is 1/4" steel channel, not box, and I believe it is 5" wide though he offers 6" wide for an additional $200. One thing I forgot to mention is the coupler; it swings open to the side (solid top and other side) and locks in with a full wraparound sleeve that slides forward over it. I'm kinda partial to the PT deck vs. steel as I throw a sheet of plywood or two on when working with stone. As for the brake controller, I seem to remember Bird providing a bit of info on different controllers a while back and will have to look that up. Install should be a snap - the Chevy came with a controller cable if I remember right.

Thanks for your comments. This trailer dealer has a good reputation for well built stuff and he pointed out that he derated the trailer just to stay below the 10,001 lb level.
Still doing homework...
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #25  
Andy, the hitch coupler you described is called a Bulldog hitch; very good. And for brake controllers, my personal favorite is the Tekonsha (they make several models), but there are other good ones. Just be sure it's one that increases braking force to the trailer as you increase braking force on the towing vehicle instead of one that's just "on or off" power to the trailer brakes.
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #26  
I have a 10,000 lb. 16 footer with a Bulldog hitch. I use aTekonsha controller and I have had great luck with this setup.
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #27  
Anyone considering running 26,000 GCWR with a pickup is pushing the ragged edge of disaster. I think the max GCWR for any one ton is about 20,000 or so, according to manufacturers specs. If you were moving 26,000 with a pickup and got in a wreck and killed someone, your insurance company would most likely abandon you because you were grossly overloaded. If I had that kind of weight to move I would get a used single axle tractor (Kenworth type, not Kubota), or a 5 yard dump with a tandem dual trailer. Then you could do some REAL work without worrying about breaking your pickup and invalidating the warranty. The whole CDL thing is not really a big deal. There are tests, but they are very basic and even the driving test is not very demanding. The physical is a snap if you can walk, talk, see and have a pulse.
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #28  
<font color=blue>Hosejockey2002 wrote: The physical is a snap if you can walk, talk, see and have a pulse.
</font color=blue>
Of course you forgot the most important part: you can pay the physical exam fee.
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #29  
And the commercial insurance premiums
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #30  
I bought a new 20' long floor, 82" inside fenders, trailer 1 1/2
yrs. ago 14k GWR. 2 5/16" Bumper hitch no dovetail but has
6' swing down ramps.
It weighs 4K lbs empty 7" channel frame and 1.25" white oak floor.
Cost was 2400.00 in OH.
I have a duramax too and it will pull it fine.
If u have factory tow package in the glove compartment is the wire harrness for brake controller to hook up under dash.
U will have to put the 40 amp fuse in the fuse block under
the hood to power it.
I haul a JD 250 SSL (7K lbs)
backhoe (2k)
trencher (1k)
2 buckets (1k)
All on trailer at same time.
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #31  
Check your tire ratings too. Some dealers like to to sell a 12,000 lb trailer with tires only rated for 7,000lb. If you can pull a gooseneck, get it. You won't go back to a bumper pull.

Maybe I'm missing something but it looks like some are taking the max payload and the max trailer weight to get a GCVWR. If you have the max trailer weight you can't add the max payload, the trailer has already done that for you. Anyway new '03 Dodge GCVWR 23,000lbs, empty truck 7,500 approx and 15,500 for max trailer weight.

I thought ( just hearsay) that the CDL was only required in commercial applications not for private use.
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #32  
I’ve casually looked at a couple of trailers lately so I thought I would share the prices for those looking. These all looked like well built units but I don’t have the sizes of the steel used.

All of the trailers were 16’ with a 2’ dovetail and 84” wide. They all had pressure treated decks, stake pockets and bulldog hitches.

Equipment trailer with dual 3500 lbs axles, brakes on one axle and fold down ramps. $1350

Same basic trailer as above in a lowboy configuration with ramps that store under the trailer. $1550

Same two trailers with dual 6000 lbs axles and dual brakes were $1000 more give or take $50.

MarkV
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #33  
CDL is for everyone.
Friends brother got ticket out of it and for CGVWR being over his OH license plate wt.
1 ton pick up and 5th wheel trailer (empty when ticketed).
U also have to watch fuel tax and get sticker and pay extra fuel taxes.

BTW Chevy HD 2500 22k CGVWR.
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #34  
Well you got me to looking. In Oklahoma, if it is a farm vehicle, no requirement for CDL regardless of weight, but limited to a 150 mile radius of farm and must be driven by farmer, family member or employee of farm. Otherwise CDL is required.
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #35  
<font color=blue>I thought ( just hearsay) that the CDL was only required in commercial applications not for private use.</font color=blue>

It may vary by state, but I don't think so. Here is info from<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.state.ma.us/rmv/license/2diflic.htm> Mass RMV </A>


Truck or truck + trailer > 26,001 LB or trailer over 10,000 LB = CDL


There are often exemptions for farm & emergency vehicles.
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #36  
hosejockey2002,

You forgot about the F450s. GVWR is ~15,000 lbs and GCWR is about ~30,000 lbs. 26 GCWR is a peice of cake for one of these.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.fleet.ford.com/products/fleet_showroom/Showdetail.asp?Pagecate=5&vyear=2003&vcode=6270&vehmodel=pho00f450sdcchas%2Ejpg>http://www.fleet.ford.com/products/fleet_showroom/Showdetail.asp?Pagecate=5&vyear=2003&vcode=6270&vehmodel=pho00f450sdcchas%2Ejpg</A>

Hazmat,

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Truck or truck + trailer > 26,001 LB or trailer over 10,000 LB = CDL

<hr></blockquote>



That must be a Mass law see previous discussion:

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=genbuy&Number=184412&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Words=DMV&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=50&Old=allposts&Main=182617>http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=genbuy&Number=184412&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Words=DMV&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=50&Old=allposts&Main=182617</A>

In AR and apperantly TX you have to be at a GCWR>26,000 before CDL is required, regardless of trailer weight.

My F250 has a GVWR of 8800 lbs and weights ~6500. GCWR is 20,000 lbs. Therefore if you assume a load capability of 2300 lbs (GVWR-weight) and 10% hitch weight then you could have a very heavy trailer weight and not violate the GVWR law. Of course this would require quite a hitch setup!
So this means that the GCWR is the real limit. GCWR is 20K so 20K-6.5K gives you a trailer max weight of just over 13K which is what ford publishes.
This is just the theoritcial limit, the real limit is sligtly less since the hitch rating must be considered.
Also the newer F250s are a good deal heaveir so you need to watch the GVWR rating.

Bottom line is that in many states you can pull a 10-12K trailer with a pickup truck legally.

Fred
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #37  
Phred,
Over 26001 LB truck or over 10,000 LB trailer =CDL in Pa. also.
I believe this is the law in most states.
I suggest you get a CDL book in your state and and read the states law.
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #38  
Guys,

I am not trying to be argumenitive but here is a quote from the Texas state CDL hand book:
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/driver_licensing_control/dlindex.htm">http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/driver_licensing_control/dlindex.htm"</A>

"You must have a CDL to operate:
A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating
GVWR of more than 26,000 pounds.
A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if
the gross combination weight rating is more than
26,000 pounds.

A vehicle designed to transport more than 15 persons
including the driver.
Any size vehicle which requires hazardous materials
placards".

A quote from the Arkansas DMV web page:

"What type of license do I need to drive?
Class A - Any combination of vehicles with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 26,001 pounds or more, provided that the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of the vehicles being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. Minimum age of 18.

Class B - Any single vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 26,001 pounds or more and any vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds. Minimum age of 18.

Class C - Any single vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of less than 26,001 or any such vehicles towing a vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating not in excess of 10,000 pounds comprising: (1) vehicles designed to transport 16 passengers or more, including driver; (2) vehicles used in the transport of hazardous materials which are placarded. Minimum age of 18.

Class D - Any vehicle which is not a commercial vehicle as described above. Minimum age 14 restricted/16 unrestricted."

If I am missing something please enlighten me since I have no desire to break the law.

However, these quotes appear to clearly show that in at least two states one can legally tow a 13K trailer with a 1 ton and no CDL.

Fred
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #39  
Fred,

FYI, the F-450 is not a class three (commonly misnamed 'one ton') truck. It is a class four truck. Hardly an 'apples-to-apples' comparison there. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 
   / Advice on Trailer Purchase #40  
Phed,
Class A,CDL=Any combination of vehicles over 26,000 LBS.
Or any towed vehicles over 10,000 LBS.

If you read your last post cafefully that is exactly what it says.
 

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