A windpower first

[Bill Guenthner]

…but not everyone has to charge at night, or everyday. Say I’m 100% charged and my Tesla only needs a 30% charge tomorrow to go to work and home, an app on my phone might tell me I can sell 70% of my Tesla’s power at 3 times the price I bought it for when I charged it on that sunny & windy day. That would be revolutionary.

Actually that is a great idea with just one fatal, but I think temporary, flaw. Current tech is already limited by the number of charge/discharge cycles that the battery can handle. But… using millions of EVs in a city as a giant sponge, soaking up excess power and discharging it later is a great idea. There are already power companies using warehouses full of used EV batteries for that very purpose. They use batteries that still hold charge, but not enough to meet the range needs of the vehicles they were in before being replaced. It’s a massive growth industry that I have some familiarity with.

 

[Ken45101]

…but not everyone has to charge at night, or everyday. Say I’m 100% charged and my Tesla only needs a 30% charge tomorrow to go to work and home, an app on my phone might tell me I can sell 70% of my Tesla’s power at 3 times the price I bought it for when I charged it on that sunny & windy day. That would be revolutionary.

One could image in a real time customer market that a phone app might also turn on my smart - dishwasher, hot tub, swimming pool for a couple hours etc.. based on market price set points.

I suppose the counter argument, right now, of me subsidizing my neighbor’s usage, is that it makes the demand side of the equation really predictable if people turn on their power without any concern to the supply.
Right now, grid managers can easily predict demand based on the temperature (degree day) and what day of the week it is can get you accurate predictions down to the hour.
Conversely, a real time consumer market based system would introduce some instability to pricing and supply/demand, but it would also introduce the consumer to the reality of the supply side as the grid gets more unstable with solar/wind generation sources.
But most importantly, and conservatives should love this: YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE TO SUBSIDIZE YOUR NEIGHBORS ELECTRIC BILL!

You are going to sell off your EV charge. What happens if you have a late night emergency, or even the next day you have to drive to the hospital. Or there is an emergency evacuation and you and 500 others are blocking the egress routes with your dead batteries? Or there is a storm and power lines are down for 10-20-40 hours?

 

[CobyRupert]

You are going to sell off your EV charge. What happens if you have a late night emergency, or even the next day you have to drive to the hospital. Or there is an emergency evacuation and you and 500 others are blocking the egress routes with your dead batteries? Or there is a storm and power lines are down for 10-20-40 hours?

Risk/reward calculations and risk tolerance are a central part of capitalism. You can’t triple your investment if you don’t risk something.
That’s a similar risk you take when your wife, or kid, or yourself leaves the gas tank on near empty. You have to fill it back up. It’s not always convenient and could leave you stranded in an emergency.

 

[workinonit]

Actually it doesn't even approach being the same thing for a lot of us. It takes 10 minutes to put gasoline in a vehicle. I have spare gas all the time. I just prefer not not get mixed up in that boondoggle debacle.

 

[Bill Guenthner]

Actually it doesn't even approach being the same thing for a lot of us. It takes 10 minutes to put gasoline in a vehicle. I have spare gas all the time. I just prefer not not get mixed up in that boondoggle debacle.

By the same token, EVs make perfect sense for the vast majority of people in the world, nearly all of which live in or near large cities. EVs will be the dominant form of private transportation in the US in 10 to 20 years.

 

[DarkBlack]

Really windy around here today
Wind making 9.6% of New England power.

 

[DarkBlack]

Notice landfills can be considered good guys too

 

[Egon]

European power sources:

It’s Official: In 2020, Renewable Energy Beat Fossil Fuels Across Europe

The results are in: last year, for the first time, renewables generated more electricity than fossil fuels across the EU, spurred on by new solar and wind power projects.

www.forbes.com

I was just thinking, hard, I know, that there was a time when gasoline filling stations were hard to find. Horse stables would have been more common. This has evolved to lots of gasoline filling stations with limited availability of public charging stations. Seems there is a pattern occurring when power sources change. The old gives way to the new.

Used to be home heating had regular truck supply of coal delivery. Doubt if you can even buy heating coal these days. There is trucked fuel oil & propane delivery as well as pipeline delivered natural gas or power line distributed electricity. Change is inevitable.

 

[Hay Dude]

European power sources:

It’s Official: In 2020, Renewable Energy Beat Fossil Fuels Across Europe

The results are in: last year, for the first time, renewables generated more electricity than fossil fuels across the EU, spurred on by new solar and wind power projects.

www.forbes.com

I was just thinking, hard, I know, that there was a time when gasoline filling stations were hard to find. Horse stables would have been more common. This has evolved to lots of gasoline filling stations with limited availability of public charging stations. Seems there is a pattern occurring when power sources change. The old gives way to the new.

Used to be home heating had regular truck supply of coal delivery. Doubt if you can even buy heating coal these days. There is trucked fuel oil & propane delivery as well as pipeline delivered natural gas or power line distributed electricity. Change is inevitable.

Back 75 years ago, Did the government force people heating homes with coal into changing to HH oil, or was it an improvement brought about by free markets? Did the government subsidize this change?

Is todays change from HH oil and NG to EV’s and wind/solar power from improvements in free markets, or government subsidies, mandates and pressures to force changes on us?

Biden threatening oil executives with imprisonment? Government making oil exploration more difficult? Fuel pipeline permits being denied?

Are those free market pressures to change? I dont think so.

 

[Bill Guenthner]

Back 75 years ago, Did the government force people heating homes with coal into changing to HH oil, or was it an improvement brought about by free markets? Did the government subsidize this change?

Is todays change from HH oil and NG to EV’s and wind/solar power from improvements in free markets, or government subsidies, mandates and pressures to force changes on us?

Biden threatening oil executives with imprisonment? Government making oil exploration more difficult? Fuel pipeline permits being denied?

Are those free market pressures to change? I dont think so.

The free market system did not build the US highway system and it never would have. The ferry boat operators at US river crossings were appalled that the government would build bridges over the rivers using taxpayer money. Exxon, Chevron, Marathon, etc. are all investing heavily in alternative energy research.

Why we're investing $15 billion in a lower-carbon future | ExxonMobil

At ExxonMobil, we develop and deploy solutions that meet society’s needs. Today, that means taking a leading role in providing the products that enable modern life, reducing carbon emissions and developing needed technologies to advance a lower-carbon emissions future.

corporate.exxonmobil.com