A RED John Deere?

Old_Hickory · Oct 9, 2003

( But in order to compete, we can't let the unions demand wages/benefits that are so inflated as to drive the jobs overseas. )

I work for a non union company as an hourly worker and I make better wages than a few of the remaining union jobs.The threat of a union has kept me earning a good wage.The unions have caused some problems for themselves and I feel the union is declining.
If you knew how much money management makes/engineers/supervisors where I work.The managers are like congress they vote in their own pay raises.
I make a little over $23.00 an hour,I work a lot of nights a lot of weekends a lot of holidays.My department manager makes about $110,000 a year plus a $10000 to $15000 bonus. My plant manager makes in excess of $125,000 a year plus his bonus.
I cannot totally blame the unions for the jobs being shipped overseas.
A lot of people overseas probably work for I am guessing $5.00 an hour. I would be in poverty in this country if I worked for that kind of a wage. I could go on.

5030 · Oct 9, 2003

I see that somebody is on the ball here. At least for a change!!

Junkman · Oct 9, 2003

( The "tooth fairy" brought mine!! )

I can't accept that because in another post, I denied the existence of the "tooth fairy"....... could you pick something else ??????

Mine came on a trailer that was manufactured by second generation immigrant family in PA of steel that came from Japan, from cars that were made of steel that was made 100% in the good old US of A back when we made steel and cars in the 1960's!!!!!!!!! Just call me Junkman /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

5030 · Oct 9, 2003

Junkman:

I got it for sure......

The "good credit rating" brought mine!!!

Bob_Skurka · Oct 9, 2003

Old Hickory, you can see in my posts that I don't exclusively blame unions. There are lots of different factors. And a direct comparision of $5/hour here to $5/hour overseas is not really fair either because it might cost $500 to ship a pallet of good manufacturered at $5/hour in Mexico or $1000 from the Phillipines. So we can't simplify it that much to make direct wage comparisions, and I would never claim that management is blameless, but they do control the strings of where things are produced based on a lot of factors, not the least of which is the governmental regulations that make it so expensive to build or upgrade a plant here in the States.

We needed to expand our warehouse at work and the OSHA people wanted us to put in wheelchair accessable washrooms in the warehouse, despite the fact that the jobs we perform cannot be performed by people in wheelchairs. The cost to tear out and rebuid the bathrooms was projected to be over $100,000. And then they wanted wheelchair ramps at the doors. And then they wanted handicapped accessible parking spaces for jobs that cannot be performed by people in wheelchairs. Mind you the office area has those accessable features, but the production faciility simply cannot. Do you know how the problem was solved? We didn't expand the warehouse because it would have cost more than the company could have afforded. By the time the company made the aisle wider and lowered the shelves and altered the machinery the new expansion would have required 50% more square footage to comply with the regulations than was even in the budget so a project that would have added American jobs ended up being cancelled because regulations would have required $500,000 in added expenses ABOVE the planned budget. So managment made the choice to subjob out some work . . . offshore. I can't blame them. In fact the company is Employee Owned, so we make more profit because of managments choice, and while we don't add people to our facility, we support their actions!!!

Old_Hickory · Oct 9, 2003

I understand Bob,and I knew you were not pointed towards the unions only in your post.

Thanks and have a good day. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

rockyridgefarm · Oct 9, 2003

I heard about a little fire department that got beat up the same way. But I don't want anyone to think that I don't feel that wheel chair bound firemen don't have a right to have things a little easier at the fire station /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Bob_Skurka · Oct 9, 2003

Have you seen the wheelchair accessable snorkel trucks? But those are nothing compared to the handicapped accessable fire pole that the firemen use inside the fire house.

Mark4510 · Oct 9, 2003

If you want to talk about the cost of a widget and why those widgets cost more to be made in the good ol' USA you can blame a lot of things. Unions, less educated workers, less productive workers, regulations, etc.....all of which are contributors. What I dont see brought up and the thing that I believe is one of the greatest drivers here, is executive compensation. There are MANY cases I can point to but let me relate this one to you. Recently, non executive level employees were told that, due to poor company profits, no bonuses were to be paid and raises were only going to be allocated to the highest performing employees. In looking at the financials it showed the company was continuing to lose hundreds of millions a year including that one. In digging a little further it became apparent that the CEO's total declared compensation for that year was almost $90 million. In digging a little further that number did not include all the "soft" compensation such as hundreds of millions in "loans" that had been forgiven, multiple corporate jets, $20 million plus homes that had been given free of charge, a monthly prepaid credit card contribution of $10,000 for personal use. An electrical generator, fully paid for and maintained by the company that produced enough power that he "sold" the electricity back to the local utility company. I could go on and on regarding the CEO alone. I would like to also add that this was not a one time situation. This occured for years and, to be fair, though it still does, it has been scaled back. But...do you think the CEO's compensation is out of line? The total compensation for Officers, SVP's, VP's and Directors is HUGE in terms of total compensation and soft compensation.

If the CEO had refused just $10 million of his compensation that year every non executive employee would have seen an average 13% pay increase. That increase would have directly improved the lives of those families. Would the CEO have suffered that much with a paltry $80,000,000 paycheck? Would he have refused to show up to work the next day? If he had turned back $20 million, half to employees and the other have to the bottom line for investors, everyone would have won. If he was making $70,000,000 would he have resigned? Would he have been forced into personal bankruptcy?

And PLEASE.........do not try to float the argument that CEO's of profitable companies deserve high compensation. The compensation levels of US management is the highest in the world by a huge margin.

I am not a bitter rank and file employee. I once was part of the problem until my South Dakota raised, ranching, 94 year old grandfather asked me if I was proud of what I did for a living. Now, by my choice, my life is defined by the quality of those around me, the quality of my work, and the quality difference I make in other peoples lives.

So next time you hear a CEO say they have to send jobs over seas because the pay is lower, or the Unions are demanding too much, or governmental regulations are eating into their profits you can bet that much of that is true. But.....just remember that if those CEO's and senior management were not so focused on personal enrichment most of that would not have to occur.

That is my 2 cents and I am now ready to suffer the slings and arrows of those that disagree.

Woodbeef · Oct 9, 2003

hey 5030,

Nope not yet first killer frosts only last week. It's in the mid 70s this week....

Bob_Skurka · Oct 9, 2003

Mark, I think my posts lay blame all over the place.

At our company the CEO makes about $125,000, and that includes his car, health benefits, etc.

I think you can always find a shining example of abuse. Executive abuse. Absolutely. Government stupidity. Absolutely. Union greed. Absolutely. Our culture of ME ME ME first, everyone else last. Absolutely.

But to your point about if the CEO would have taken $10,000,000 less one year everyone else would have gotten. . .

I think that is erroneous thought. Because the consumer is still the king and if the end product is not cheap enough or good enough or pretty enough or functional enough, or some combination of all those things then it won't matter because we won't buy it. And so to say that we could/should give everyone a raise by cutting the CEO's pay still buys into the mentality that can be uncompetitive at the expense of someone else. We have to compete on all fronts with our goods or nobody, including us, will buy them.

Junkman · Oct 9, 2003

The most incredible thing about the American's with Disability Act and OSHA, is that government is exempt from the regulations. Our government routinely exempts itself from most it not all labor laws! When was the last time you heard a politician complain about his health insurance premiums or coverage.... NEVER!!! Try to find a politician that isn't a lawyer... there are very few and the lawyers know how to write the laws so they effect everyone else except for themselves. I don't think that we should have term limits, but limits on the amount of attorney's that can hold office at any one given time. Think of it as..... would you spend millions of your own dollars to get a job that pays $250,000 a year for 4 years?????? President Bush did!!!! He isn't as dumb as he sometimes sounds....

rtimgray · Oct 9, 2003

Now I know what the electronic equivalent of beating my head against the wall is....

50 posts in this thread, and less than 20 address the original issue, while more than that address the general decline of our manufacturing economy...

Is there an "Economybynet.com" site with message board anywhere?

Don't mind me - I've got the concept, and if I don't like the discussion, I don't have to read it or comment on it any more. Fair enough.

shady1701 · Oct 9, 2003

After you posted here on TBN we had a video today at work on all the different divisions and locations on JDPP's they showed the augusta plant and then showed a joint venture for JD / Funskai and Yanmar. Which yanmar owns Funskai. They have approx. 16 plants in europe and went into detail on many different products and "niche" markets they rename there products due to there name is not a global name as common as it is in the states here.

The rest i can't say but neat neat things in the make for the green,yellow and red tractor /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.

Mark4510 · Oct 9, 2003

Bob,
I think we shall agree to disagree on this point. I have too many data points that say too many in corporate America dont deliver as much product as they could to the consumer in an effort for personal enrichment.
And rtimray is correct. I should be asking where I can find a reliable bio diesel source in my area or figuring out how to post pics on my latest fabrications....

jpr62902 · Oct 9, 2003

"Try to find a politician that isn't a lawyer... "

Arnold Schwarzeneger, Jesse Ventura, Gopher (from The Love Boat), Steve Largent, Howard Dean, President Bush .... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

5030 · Oct 9, 2003

Mike:

Now that we have all ventured far and wide, actually much farther and wider than the thread could ever hope to be.....Could we get back to the point.....
Is there indeed a RED JOHN DEERE?????

I don't believe that was ever answered.
Many other answers were given though.

Woodbeef · Oct 9, 2003

Hey Shady,

Did that video say anything about the joint venture with Hattat in Turkey? It was suspose to produce utility tractors in the 40-90 hp range to replace the Zetor sourced models. But I've never heard or seen anything from it.

rockyridgefarm · Oct 9, 2003

( Mike:

Now that we have all ventured far and wide, actually much farther and wider than the thread could ever hope to be.....Could we get back to the point.....
Is there indeed a RED JOHN DEERE????? )

I have no IDEA what you're talking about.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif