A few POR-15 paint questions to those who use it.

[Von]

Some of you may have seen my post on the Unimog rebuild that I am currently doing. I have the motor out and tomorrow will pull the tranny. Then I can start on removing the axles and get down to the frame. I want to sandblast the frame down Then I am just going to pressure wash and wirebrush the axles. and was thinking of then using the POR-15 on everything. I see that it must be top coated. Do you need to prime it first? or can I just blast some black semi-gloss enamel right over it. Also can you use it on the engine and then cover it with high temp engine paint? Also what is the best color to use that will cover the best. And is spraying better than brushing? Thanks for all replies. Von

 

[Junkman]

I have used POR15 and similar products from Bill Hersch Auto. I prefer the products the Hersch sells and from all my friends that do restoration, they also say that his products are superior to anything else on the market. Make sure to use latex gloves, no matter what product that you use, because the stuff doesn't come off your skin very easily. Both products need to be top coated and the Hersch product can be brushed on for great results. Here is the web page. A few years ago, one of the auto magazines did a test and his products came out on top then also. It might be personal opinion, and I have given mine.... others may vary depending on their past experiences. I use what I find that I have had the best luck with and I have been using his products for more than 30 years... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Expensive, but worth the price in the end for the quality.

 

[Ozarker]

Is your Unimog a civilian model or a surplus military vehicle? The reason I as is becasue if it is a military model it may have CARC (Chemical Agent Resistant Coating) paint on it. If it has CARC paint, you need a respirator, not a face mask, a respirator if you are going to be grinding/sandblasting.

 

[JD4610]

There are quite a few myths out there regarding CARC and the hazards that surround it. CARC is chemically similar to DuPont's IMRON paint, it is nothing more than a high quality polyurethane. Once it has cured, it may be sanded with no more protection than a fine-particle dust mask. However, it should not be heated or welded as the fumes are toxic. Further information can be found in Army Technical Bulletin 43-0242.

 

[Von]

Junkman,
Thanks for the link to Hersch's web site! It seems that the Hersch paint is cheaper than the POR15 as well! I'll have to place an order for a few quarts and give it a try. Did you spray it on, or brush it on. I have some spots that I think spraying would be better, and some that I think I can get away with just brushing it on. Do you know if it can be used on engines? Von

 

[Ozarker]

Myths????????????? OK, Lets take a look at the reference you cited, Army Technical Bulletin 43-0242, Section IV Safety Precautions, Para, 4-3:

"...........You will need a dust respirator when you sand or grind off the old paint. Individuals using respirators must be trained and have the respirators fitted."

 

[Junkman]

I have always brushed it on and have had great results. I originally started with the gas tank sealer and found that to work well. Then I tried the paint as well. I am not certain how it works on engines, but I can tell you that he has extensive knowledge of restoration being a Packard collector for as long as I can remember. That is how he started in business, he couldn't find what he needed for the Packards, so he decided to make what he needed himself. Best bet would be to ask when you place the order. I would buy the quarts and use it as necessary rather than gallons that can go bad between uses.... I used foam brushes and tossed them when I was done. Easier than cleaning up bristle brushes. Where I had to use a bristle brush, I used cheap ones that I could toss also. Clean up is the only problem... it doesn't come off easily, so make sure you only get it where you want it...

 

[Hollywood]

I think he was trying to say that CARC isn't any different than most paints.... read on, section 5:

b. Remove all loose paint and rust by sanding
or with an orbital grinder. When you sand any
old paint, use a respirator designed to filter out
dust, because the old paint may contain lead or
chromates. Use a HEPA vacuum, like NSN
7910-01-0685662, to clean up.

Notice the use of the words "any old paint"...these warnings aren't related to CARC, but paint in general. I definitely painted my share of Bradleys before dessert storm 1, and we used the same precautions and procedures as about any body shop you might find. When we first were being trained, there were a couple instructors that "overstated" the dangers of CARC paint, but the civilians that were running the show clued us into the fact the it really wasn't any more dangerous than normal urethanes. I think the instructors decided that carc meant carcinogen!
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Boondox]

Hey Von, glad to see you're keeping yourself busy!

I've used a lot of POR15 on my old Dodge pickups. Gas tank clean and seal. Exhaust manifolds. Rear end and frame as it gets exposed. The stuff works great! I used Chassis Black (also by POR15) over the base coat on the frame and axles; it's practically bomb proof. And no, you don't use POR15 as a basecoat on an engine; they have other products for that. The also have a tie coat for use as a sandable primer if you want to topcoat with other paints, but I've had great results with spraying a primer over the POR15 while it's still tacky, letting it dry completely, then topcoating.

All that said, however, Auto Restorer recently did a test of rust conversion coatings and rated Eastman's tops both in performance and ease of use. I have no experience with that line but am going to give it a try on my other truck.

Oh, and pay attention to the part where they tell you to wear gloves, and to get it off your skin before it sets. I ignored that advice and had a black streak across my nose and cheek for about a month! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Pete

 

[Ozarker]

Nice try but no. It isn't talking about "any old paint" meaning any type of paint. It is talking about the removal of any old paint on the military equipment. And the only old paint on it is the CARC paint that it is talking about.

 

[Von]

Thanks Pete. I'll have to do a little more research before I buy paint. I only want to do this once and I want to do it right the first time. With all the salt they use around here on the road I want this paint job to last. My main concern is the frame and under carriage. This thing sits so high that the body should stay clean! I'll let you know what I choose and how it works..Von

 

[SPIKER]

I used some thing similar (dupont version DP something) a long time ago and they said it needed top coated, one step I neglected. needless to say the paint didn't hold up on the frame of my cougar at all. there is actually MORE rust now as I sandblasted the front half and used it on there. though I just reinstalled the front sheet metal and all not recoating and the stuff ended up flaking off and like others said, no to applying dirrectly to the engine too.

It was my own falut but I ran out of time, the Air Force body shop had a 2 week MAX time limit to any project in the shop. in the 2 weeks I did all the following.

I pulled the front end all sheet metal, motor, trans, sand blasted everything under hood & frame, pulled all suspension & rebuilt it, sandblasted first and painted using the dupont version (DP90 I think) Painted the inner fenders using spray can black (down to two days and it was still sandblasted with engine dissassembled.) I had it running by noon on the 14th day with the hood still off. it was the look lol. I put the hood back on and was off to the local FUN place to test the NEW cam and lowered suspension...

anyhow it ran great but after bringing my good shaped 74 cougar back to ohio from the desert it has rusted away link nothing with ony a few winter drives in the salt. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

well anyhow live and learn. that was 13 yrs ago. I still have it though it is SHOT and looks like it was shot using a howatser! rust on thos old cars is nasty stuff.

Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[GerardC]

Von:

Maybe this link can help you web page.

 

[jrlichina]

DP90 is Epoxy Primer, it's close to POR-15 but not quite as good in my opinion. I've used the DP90 in many car restorations and prefer this for exterior body panels. I use K-36 over the DP90 then top coat this with a 2 stage urethane system. Single stage is also nice and takes less time. It depends on the type of finish your are after, show car or just really nice. I use the POR-15 for inside the trunk, doors, rockers, etc., and chassis. I've also used the POR-15 on implements like loaders and backhoes and nothing holds up like the POR-15 does.

 

[Von]

Pete, I just ordered the paint from EASTWOOD after reading the test results. I'll let you know how well it works. I got the black chassis paint from them as well. I am going to use the RUST ELIMINATOR on the motor as a base coat. The web site states that it is good to 400F degrees. Most water cooled blocks don't get over 300F. Should start sandblasting this week and start painting by the weekend! (I hope)