77 Satoh Beaver S370D wont start, low compression

[HomesteadOC]

I got my replacement ring in yesterday, it was full cast iron oil ring and the 2 I got with the ring kits had the coil spring in them. The nice fella at NCW tractor supply said they do the same job and its not important which ine you get, but I wanted them to be the same. He mentioned that the cast rings do better in smaller bore engines, because they seat faster and help he engine run a little cooler. So hes sending another cast iron one and Im returning the spring coil one. Today I pulled the #1 piston with the spring ring and installed the #2 piston with the new cast iron ring. He sent out the new piston this morning, hopefully it gets here before the weekend.

 

[HomesteadOC]

Got the new cast ring in today and put the engine back together, but still no starting. Im not sure what Im missing...
Everything is torqued to spec, oil is at the correct level, injector pop test is good, no coolant in the radiator, but Im waiting til it starts. I need to check compression, but that hopefully is not the issue. Rings are tight against the bore and the valves were adjusted to the 0.014” tolerance. My smoke is black and glow plugs get hot, theres a new battery, made sure gaskets were all in place.

 

[HomesteadOC]

Lying in bed and thinking I should put some oil in the top of the piston to get the compression up a tad and do a test while Im at it. It will have to wait til tomorrow, I just figured my assembly lube wouldve been plenty as well as the new oil in the crankcase. I wish I kept the valve cover off until I got it going so I could make sure the oils pumping the way its supposed to. If anyone has any other suggestions to try please throw them at me. My smoke is black, and more black than before the ring change, is that good? Im trying to start with the air filter off.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I feel your pain.. ALL that hard work & you end up in the same spot as before..NO START.
The HEAVY black smoke is probably from all the lube..??
Can you snap a pic of the inj. pump & injectors?? is it gear driven? or off a cam??
Are you SURE about the piston orientation??
Why in gods name didn't you snap pics during teardown ?? piston orientation, timing marks..??
you do have an engine rebuild manual don't you??
Did you get the fuel system looked at..?? If the injectors aren't atomizing properly or open at the correct opening pressure, that will cause a problem..
IF the pump is worn to the point that it wont pump enough fuel to START the engine.. but run fine after it starts, is possible..

 

[HomesteadOC]

I feel your pain.. ALL that hard work & you end up in the same spot as before..NO START.
The HEAVY black smoke is probably from all the lube..??
Can you snap a pic of the inj. pump & injectors?? is it gear driven? or off a cam??
Are you SURE about the piston orientation??
Why in gods name didn't you snap pics during teardown ?? piston orientation, timing marks..??
you do have an engine rebuild manual don't you??
Did you get the fuel system looked at..?? If the injectors aren't atomizing properly or open at the correct opening pressure, that will cause a problem..
IF the pump is worn to the point that it wont pump enough fuel to START the engine.. but run fine after it starts, is possible..

Im 100% on piston orientation, Wynn from NCW confirmed this twice with me. Ill get some pictures of the iniectors after work, but I did a pop test and theyre definitely atomizing properly. I have a manual, Ill be going over it again, I took lots of pictures during tear down. I rotated the engine while the pistons where coming out to be able to be able to remove them and clean the crank better, but I didnt remove the cam or adjust timing so why should that matter? The rods went back to where the rods came from and pistons are new. Im suspcious of my valve clearance check, the #2 valve on the far right was extra tight and had to be loosened up a few turns. #1 cylinder valves were toleranced to 0.014” at TDC and #2 was done at BDC. I was thinking that looser is not dangerous, and the reason why was because of the carbon buildup that I cleaned out and someone adjusted the valves while that was there. The other 3 valves were very close.
Do I want white smoke or black smoke here? I watched your bolens rering videos again and it looks like youre getting black smoke before it kicks over.

 

[HomesteadOC]

I can not find my manual, Im not sure where it went, but no manual can be found. Im thinking I did the valve adjustment procedure incorrectly, I was just adjusting for tolerance off of the paper that NCW included with the pistons, and gasket set. Is it possible for someone to help me out with a few pictures of the valve adjusting procedure?
When I get home I have a few things to try, but the first thing is compression check and will put some oil in the top of the cylinder to help soak the rings if its low. Then pull the valve cover and see if Im getting oil up there and do a by the book valve adjustment. There should also be something in the manual about a ring seat procedure. My friend at work was saying that I might have to run it at certain throttle positions for a certain length of time to seat the rings properly? Does this make sense? Ive got the wife looking around for the manual, I looked for an hour or so before bed, but couldnt find it. Im hoping it didnt get thrown out during some junk mail stack cleaning.

 

[HomesteadOC]

Compression is at 350 for both cylinders, at least I have consistency. Im suspecting I have a valve adjustment issue, but I still cant fine my manual. Im not really sure what to do right now, i think ill put some oil in the cylinders while i take the valve cover back off. Im getting smoke coming out of the crankcase vent, if that helps a diagnosis.

 

[HomesteadOC]

I guess this is a problem, but not sure why the compression onnthe other cylinder matches.

 

[HomesteadOC]

Got it!

 

[HomesteadOC]

Tractor is running pretty good, I had a little leaking on the valve cover, but I tightened to 20ftlb and that took care of it. I had them at 15ftlbs by the bolt chart on the paper NCW sent, but I guess it needed more. I still cant find my manual, so hopefully I can find it soon or I guess Ill order another one. My issue was an improper valve adjustment, each cylinder needs to be at TDC, and that matters, lol. I had to take off the radiator to get to it, which was a lot easier than I thought it would be. I found TDC by using the balloon trick. I put the compression tester nozzle on a glow plug and attached a balloon to it, then rotated the engine until the balloon blew up and kept going until the balloon was sucking in on itself and back and forth til I found an equilibrium and that was TDC. I used my feeler gauge at 0.014” and all the valves needed adjusting. Cylinder 2 was way off because when I did the first adjustment, #1 was already at TDC, and #2 was around the bottom of the stroke. The push rod, as you can see in the previous picture came loose, and was not helping my non-starting situation. Luckily no damage was caused by my rush to get it back together.