7040, died at fairgrounds, now what?

[roygage]

Working at putting fence up for the upcoming tractor pull. Shut the 7040 off and when went to start 1/2 hour later it was a crank no start. No smoke from the stack. Checked fuel supply, pulled filter and installed new, pumped while had the filter off and the primer was delivering fuel. Checked the fuel separator, OK.

Suspected the fuel shutoff solenoid but when the key is on and I unhook it and then hook it back up can hear a very good audible click.

Heard some of the fuel shutoffs have two sets of windings, a pull on and a holding coil.

I did not look to see if mine was a two wire or three wire. Unit has the cab, believe it is a 2011.

Would appreciate if someone could advise as to my next move. I am a auto tech and have a good understanding of things electrical but not much knowledge of diesels.

 

[BTDT2]

Have you cracked/loosened a fuel injection line to see if fuel is pumping when the engine is cranking? The beauty of a diesel is it only needs compression and a mist of diesel in the cylinder to operate

 

[roygage]

No I have not. Had a diesel tech working with us on the fence, he simply looked at the stack and pronounced, no fuel. The fence was the priority, after some quick checks we moved on. Pretty much fishing for silver bullets now, one tech missing work today so no time to play with it till this evening.

 

[Smallplot]

Try bumping the throttle up a touch then hitting the key. Newer tractors just wont keep cranking like old ones. This also brings question if battery has enough charge to turn over at a good rate.

Double check all the "safety gadgets" PTO off, clutch switch, seat switch, in neutral, these types of things.

 

[BTDT2]

No I have not. Had a diesel tech working with us on the fence, he simply looked at the stack and pronounced, no fuel. The fence was the priority, after some quick checks we moved on. Pretty much fishing for silver bullets now, one tech missing work today so no time to play with it till this evening.

I suspect no fuel and that's why I suggested cracking a fuel injector line to see if there is a squirt while cranking. If the engine is cranking then most, if not all the safety overrides should be OK. Is the engine cranking speed normal, and I agree with smallplot on bumping the throttle a tad. Have you visually checked the fuel and the fuses? Could the fuel shutoff not be receiving power albeit you said you heard it 'clicking'?

 

[roygage]

I suspect no fuel and that's why I suggested cracking a fuel injector line to see if there is a squirt while cranking. If the engine is cranking then most, if not all the safety overrides should be OK. Is the engine cranking speed normal, and I agree with smallplot on bumping the throttle a tad. Have you visually checked the fuel and the fuses? Could the fuel shutoff not be receiving power albeit you said you heard it 'clicking'?

Cranking speed is good. Have tried playing with the throttle. Checked all fuses in the main box. As far as checking fuel I have not cracked a line but have checked the rest of the system leading to the pump.

I need to get down there and see if my shutoff is a three or two wire. Anyone has a good description of how they work on this tractor, and how they fail, would be interested.

Certainly acts like the fuel is shut off at the pump. Have not heard one pop from it since it failed.

 

[Tx Jim]

The beauty of a diesel is it only needs compression and a mist of diesel in the cylinder to operate

Your statement is 2/3 correct as AIR is also required.

 

[BTDT2]

Your statement is 2/3 correct as AIR is also required.

Good point! Hard to have 'mist' without air, but I'm honestly not sure if fuel will 'mist' in a vacuum, nor did I mention compression?:confused2:

 

[Weaselfoot]

Wiggle the trannie . HST? .. like getting it back to neutral. (From another post, not from personal knowledge.)

 

[kuboman]

OK. When you turn the key on do you hear a click from the fuel solenoid? If yes do you hear another click a few seconds later? If yes then you have a 2 stage solenoid that has gone bad on the hold open windings. If no, crack an injector line and crank. If there is no fuel leaking from line I am betting your solenoid has failed. Because you hear a click does not necessarily mean it is good. It may not be going full travel.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Don't know what kind of start aid you hace but I try a little starting fluid when I get in a bind. If glow plugs be sure they aren't red hot or cycling though. If it has a touch of air in the system sometimes it firing will be enough to clear it out. Good luck. Where are the pulls at? Up by DeLeon?

Brett

 

[Tx Jim]

Don't know what kind of start aid you hace but I try a little starting fluid when I get in a bind. If glow plugs be sure they aren't red hot or cycling though. If it has a touch of air in the system sometimes it firing will be enough to clear it out. Good luck. Where are the pulls at? Up by DeLeon?

Brett

I think one is asking for serious trouble when starting fluid is used on an engine with ""glow plugs"". I'll only reach for starting fluid as a last effort to start any engine.

 

[rustyshakelford]

I think one is asking for serious trouble when starting fluid is used on an engine with ""glow plugs"". I'll only reach for starting fluid as a last effort to start any engine.

I agree. It's with caution. Best course would be to pull the relay or fuse to the gp prior to spraying. When my stuff goes down its usually a rush to get it back going again and unfortunately have to resort to these fixes sometimes. Atleast till I can get it home and fixed

Brett

 

[roygage]

OK. When you turn the key on do you hear a click from the fuel solenoid? If yes do you hear another click a few seconds later? If yes then you have a 2 stage solenoid that has gone bad on the hold open windings. If no, crack an injector line and crank. If there is no fuel leaking from line I am betting your solenoid has failed. Because you hear a click does not necessarily mean it is good. It may not be going full travel.

Kuboman. Thanks for the response. I pulled the solenoid off last night. Although only two wires to the solenoid it will not operate without the body being grounded. I take this to mean there are two sets of windings sharing a common ground through the case. The pin retracts when it is activated. Reaching into the housing with the solenoid off it feels like everything is free. As I see it with the solenoid off it should start, it does not. Cracked a line coming off the pump and cranked. Did not see any fuel come out.

I checked the fuel supply to the pump, cranked and watched fuel flow to the pump. Looks good to me. Very busy day at work today so no time to spend on it and doubt I will be able to tonight. But, appears to be the injector pump to me at this time. I just do not see any other control
wires to the pump ect. that should keep it from working.

So it being a mechanical pump, is there a shear pin which might have sheared off because the pump jammed?

 

[roygage]

[So it being a mechanical pump, is there a shear pin which might have sheared off because the pump jammed?[/QUOTE]


Customer that works on a lot of tractors was in. He suspects the metering valve is stuck. Told me is common on the older tractors he works on and often just have to get some WD 40 on the rod to free it up. This would mean that although the linkage inside I am feeling is free the valve it controls is sticking.

Believe he works on a lot of Rostra pumps. Curious to find out what i need to do to get into this one and if it is workable. Anyone know what brand of pump i am dealing with? 2010 M7040

 

[rjkobbeman]

Some of these posts sounds like a Seinfeld episode about jiggling the toilet handle.

 

[roygage]

Kuboman. Thanks for the response. I pulled the solenoid off last night. Although only two wires to the solenoid it will not operate without the body being grounded. I take this to mean there are two sets of windings sharing a common ground through the case. The pin retracts when it is activated. Reaching into the housing with the solenoid off it feels like everything is free. As I see it with the solenoid off it should start, it does not. Cracked a line coming off the pump and cranked. Did not see any fuel come out.

I checked the fuel supply to the pump, cranked and watched fuel flow to the pump. Looks good to me. Very busy day at work today so no time to spend on it and doubt I will be able to tonight. But, appears to be the injector pump to me at this time. I just do not see any other control
wires to the pump ect. that should keep it from working.

So it being a mechanical pump, is there a shear pin which might have sheared off because the pump jammed?

Fixed! Got our fence finished up, Saturday morning I welded up a ten foot gate and got fabric on it and hung with some help from my friends. Pull went off at 3:00 as planned despite 3/4 inch of rain the nite before. Flagged the 3000 to 6500 lb. lane. Pooped but relieved to have this behind me after the pull I set into the 7040. Pulled the shutoff solenoid back off and peeked into the hole with a boroscope. Little Rube Goldberg to it, hard to see just what is what.

Ahh. It was then I noted a four bolt cover above the solenoid. This plate or cover is easily pulled by removing 3 6MM bolts and one 6 MM nut. The gasket is reusable. Now peering into the beast I could slip the solenoid back into place and see exactly where the plunger contacted a sort of paddle or lever. To allow fuel this paddle has to follow the shutoff solenoids plunger out. Mine was stuck in the in or closed position. Placing a small screwdriver behind the lever using the back of the hole as a fulcrum I placed a little pressure onto it and was rewarded with a nice click as the lever popped free.

Sprayed with some penetrating oil and worked it a bunch to take the roughness out of it and the tractor started as soon as the key was turned. Unsure if the actual sticking was external of deeper in the pump, will be adding an additive today to give some lubricity to the fuel. I might add this tractor has been doing more sitting then running the past 6 months but with the 5040 now sold it should be getting much more work.

I summary, if the fuel stop plunger sticks in the off or in position you have a no start but one can access it by pulling the solenoid and top cover plate without removing the pump from the tractor. A half hour job if you know what you are looking for.

I might add that in my role as an auto repair shop owner and tech I spend a good deal of time, every day, researching on the net different sources to resolve uncommon, to me, problems. I was surprised to find nothing on this problem as it seems it would be a pattern failure which would be easy to locate the fix for. Maybe this is simply because there are fewer tractors then cars and trucks. At any rate I hope my feedback can help somebody else out.

 

[Tx Jim]

Thanks for the update as I too own a M7040.

 

[SGStriglos]

Thanks for the update as I too own a M7040.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[big bubba]

good work. am sure with the newer Mxx60 series & tier iv there will only be more headaches to the list ... be glad you have the earlier ag series model. great tractor you have