5th wheel pulling doubles or bed ramp/rack & bumper pull to haul a side by side & camper?

[Fallon]

Looking to hear people's experience about towing a bumper pull with a side by side on a rack over the bed/cab or pulling a medium/small 5th wheel with a double trailer (2,000lbs of side by side). Not teribly tractor related, but hoping the TBN hive mind has some experience on this front.

We mostly dry camp. No campground or hookups. Just head out to the woods for a long weekend. We don't want to take the camper offroading, but some of the dirt roads aren't great. We are planning on some longer multi-week trips to national parks & what not that would likely be normal campgrounds as well. Just me, the wife, the 45lbs dog & in some cases the cat. We have a 2 seater Artic Cat SxS toy that weighs around 1,400lbs.

2014 F350 double cab short bed (6.5') & PowerStroke. Weighs around 9,400lbs with toolbox & normal gear load for traveling, camping, etc. Thinking about pulling the bed & putting an aluminum flatbed on in many scenarios so I can toss a tractor implement on. I need a skirted one with built in toolboxes under the deck to replace the bed box I have now that would block a ramp or 5th wheel hitch..

Former option: 17' Casita, 3,500lbs. Towed well with my former Toyota Tacoma. I could have towed it without wheels on at freeway speeds well with the F350. It was too small for us to live in & a F350 powerstroke not being appropriate for keeping up on trails with friends lead to getting the SxS.

22' flat deck trailer (4klbs) & 8klbs of tractor & implements, 12klbs total (Same as the Carbon 35). 1,000-1500lbs tongue weight according to the WeighSafe hitch, no WDH or sway control. Load varies depending if it's my tractor or somebody else's or how many implements. Tows down the highway at 75 & have it 80 (usually keep it under 70 though) with no issues as long as I balanced it right with the WeighSafe hitch. Feels solid & well behaved. Irrelevant for camping, although I could in theory haul the SxS on it. Baseline for what the truck can tow well that I keep comparing the campers to that weight equal or less. F350 needed to haul this setup for my side job doing tractor work.

Current setup:
35' Carbon 35 bumper pull. 12klbs loaded, 1,500lbs tongue weight (with toy in the back, excessive tongue weight without), Blue Ox WDH & sway control. All axle, hitch , GVWR & other weights in spec as per Cat scales. Very twitchy over 65mph & not super pleasant to tow. I'm wiped out after 4-5 hours of towing so really won't take it out of Colorado, or even longer in-state trips. As we've found out, it's generally too big for our uses, even if it towed well. Its length means any little hill get uncomfortably close to the plumbing hanging low in the middle. Difficult to maneuver even with lots of room & won't fit in may campsites or off-grid locations.

Pro:

• Hauls toy
• Big enough to live in for longer trips
• 2 slides make it nice & roomy in kitchen/living area
• Sleeps 7+ (only 2 of us + 1-2 pets though)

Con:

• Unpleasant to tow above 65 & can be a bit twitch at 65
• Unpleasant to maneuver due to excessive length, impossible to fit in many places
• We never use the 12' of garage other than for the toy (queen bunk beds there are useless), very occasionally for guests
• Length makes dirt roads & uneven stuff problematic for the plumbing
• Max rated tongue weight for the truck if the toy is loaded & WDH is on (otherwise it exceeds tongue weight ratings

Possible option 1:
SxS bed rack
Replace 35' toy hauler with 25' bumper pull trailer around 6-7klbs

Has anybody hauled a setup like this? Looking to get the SxS camping & get a camper that is nicer to tow. Does the balance with a 2 seater SxS on a bed rack & "half ton towable" type trailer work out for a 1 ton SRW truck? I can definitely crunch the numbers, but there are a lot more unknowns with this setup than I can easily calculate compared to normal trailer weights (even considering most dealer weights are lies).

I think I will be close on the rear axle ratings with about 2,000lbs of side by side & ramp plus 5-700lbs or tongue weight. But a WDH will help shift some of the weight up front.

Basically a setup like.

Pro:

• Towing a reasonable length "1/2 ton towable" trailer with a 1 ton will be a breeze
• Can easily load up the toy on the truck if I can't drive it to a trailhead in camp
• Could fit a 4 seater SxS on the ramp of we upgraded from our 2

Con:

• Some effort required to load the toy on a steep ramp
• May be a bit heavy combining toy weight & hitch weight

Option 2:
25-26' 5th wheel non-toy hauler with a decent frame & a small aluminum trailer for the toy & pull doubles. Doubles are legal in Colorado & we probably won't be looking at hauling the toy out of state.

Pro:

• Tows well & no sway issues (without the double for sure)
• Can detach the toy & trailer for extra maneuverability if needed

Con:

• Towing doubles can be complex & long
• Towing double outside of Colorado will be limited

Options we have considered but probably don't meet our needs.

24-26' bumper pull toy hauler

Pro:

• Lighter & should be easier to haul than the 35' Carbon
• Less length for maneuverability & dragging plumbing over bumps

Con:

• Possible gas/exhaust fume issues that sometimes give the wife migraines (probably a deal killer, but well have to see)
• Possible balance issues towing empty

Gooseneck horse trailer based toy hauler

Pros:

• 5th wheel/gooseneck doesn't sway
• Not that tall
• Aluminum frame is likely to last better

Cons:

• Low ride height will leave use with dragging issues on dirt roads
• Expensive
• Interior finish quality is as cheap as every other RV
• Low roof in master bed area (not horrible, but inconvenient)

5th wheel toy hauler
Pros:

• Tows well

Cons:

• Typically huge (tall, long & heavy)
• Less maneuverable than the current Carbon due to length
• May run into issues with not being able to isolate fumes if we find a smaller one
• Probable balance issues without hauling the toy

Class C motorhome & trailer for the toy

Con:

• Another engine to maintain
• Expensive to buy another engine
• Probably weaker than the F350 powerstroke
• Possible ground clearance issues
• Need a lifeboat to get away from campsite & toy isn't road legal

Bed camper + toy trailer

Con:

• Smaller than our 17' Casita at best & that was to small

 

[2manyrocks]

I have no personal experience doing this.

IMPO, setting aside increased wind resistance and raising the center of gravity, if that 1,400lb side by side were to roll backward off the ramp on the back of that truck, the first thing could be to take out the front end of the camper.

IMPO, I wouldn't want to be the guy loading the side by side that far off the ground onto that ramp, either.

Another option might be that the next level of truck chassis could make for a better towing experience with your present 35' toyhauler.

 

[azbinder]

In the late 70's early 80's, my dad pulled a 25', single axle Mitchell 5th wheel and flat towed a '46 Jeep with a late 70's Ford F100. Don't remember what engine. He pulled all over central and southern Arizona, all types of terrain.

 

[Fallon]

I have no personal experience doing this.

IMPO, setting aside increased wind resistance and raising the center of gravity, if that 1,400lb side by side were to roll backward off the ramp on the back of that truck, the first thing could be to take out the front end of the camper.

IMPO, I wouldn't want to be the guy loading the side by side that far off the ground onto that ramp, either.

Another option might be that the next level of truck chassis could make for a better towing experience with your present 35' toyhauler.

I'm not to worried about the loading & unloading. I've driven the side my side up way worse & steeper hillsides already. To load the toy hauler now I have to gun it yo get up the ramp, then immediately stop it 1-2" from running through the wall. Option B is just hook a winch to pull it up the ramp. Have an old one from a small plow I should toss on the side by side anyway.

Even if I magically could snap my fingers & make the toy hauler pull perfectly it's still not great. We over bought. It's to long to turn around on smaller dirt roads. It sleeps 7+ & there are only 2 of us + occasional guests. Something that sleeps 2 + a couch & dinette would use space better. Also keeping gas & oil fumes out of the trailer will help the wife's migraine issues.

I have thought about upgrading to a duely or F450, but what I have now works well other than this trailer. I hear the F450s turn tighter than the 350, which would be nice though. 1/2" taller, 8" longer & much wider than the F350 double cab short bed & i cant park it in the garage. Not the end of the world, but i like parking it inside. Some of it comes down to I like my truck better than the trailer.

 

[azbinder]

If you go with a flatbed on your existing truck, check the distance from the front bumper to the back of the rear wheels of the SxS, then get a bed at least that length. Also, you will want to figure the overhang so that when you make a turn, you don't "meet" the front of your trailer. Also, consider putting the winch on the front of the bed. That way, you will be able to winch other things, like a small tractor or riding mower, up on the truck.

 

[2manyrocks]

I suspect it was a shock to go from your Casita to your 35' toy hauler. That's kind of going from one end of the scale to the opposite end so far as bumper camper towing goes.

My experience has been that about 22-24' camper is just enough for two plus a couple of pets depending on the efficiency of the layout and the length of the stay. Adding two guests would make it tighter, IMO, unless you're talking about small grandchildren.

I haven't taken our camper off the main roads. FWIW, BIL had his dealer flip his camper axles for more ground clearance.

Unfortunately, I didn't have a camera with me this afternoon nor could I get close enough to see details, but there was a guy pulling a flat bed trailer with what looked like a F350. He had taken the wheels off about a 24' camper that was somehow attached to the front of the flatbed. The rear of the flatbed was occupied by a Jeep. There were drive up ramps on the rear of the flatbed. From a distance, it looked well balanced. That was his solution.

Apparently, what he did is not uncommon to the offroad 4x4 community. Truck Camper On A Gooseneck - Truck Camper Magazine

 

[Cataclysm]

Based on your needs a crawler-hauler (truck camper on a gooseneck) would probably serve you best.

 

[5030]

Been toting a truck camper in my F350 Ford 4x4 and running off road pulling a trailer behind with our side by side on it. We much prefer a slide in truck camper over anything else. Had everything else, bumper pulls, 5th wheels and even pop up campers and we keep going back to a slide in truck camper.

The camper we have presently had a retractable top so I can get in the forest under trees and the low loaded height does not impact fuel mileage at all. If anything, it improves it.

Plus I can set it off in the unimproved campsites we visit and take the truck where we want to. Our camper operates just fine off the truck as on the truck.

Easy to store in the off season too. back in the barn, put the jack legs down, release the tie downs, lift it a bit and drive out. Takes about 15 minutes total and it's inside out of the weather when we aren't using it.

 

[RobertN]

My first reaction as a happy 5th wheeler, would be a shorter 5th wheel toy hauler, like a 30'.

Beware of the ramp on the truck with a pull behind; the picture of the black Ford shows it really squatting in the back... Even with overloads or bags, that truck is overloaded...

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Camper back bumper will be the only problem. Beef it up.