58 MPG by 2032

[bnold]

Just wait until it gets cold.

Factory battery is over 3 years old now, coldest I’ve started probably ~30* in Moab, UT on a cool morning without issue.

Don’t think I need to be able to start any colder than that. That is a 30-90*F sport in my book.

KTM 500 XCF-W, not a tiny motor either from a dirt bike perspective.

Good battery choice for application and use. I don’t need it to start and get me out of a snow drift.

 

[Grumpycat]

This is the exact reason I'm not interested in grid tie any more. Utilities are sticking it to people who are just trying to save money. And they're buying your energy at 1.5c/kwh, then what, reselling it to another customer at 15c/kwh? That number varies widely, we were 11c/kwh 3 months ago, now we're 17c/kwh, more than 50% increase out of the blue. I understand them not wanting to pay for transmission, only generation. However around here, generation is the bulk of energy cost, while transmission is considerably lower.

Went looking just now. TVA's Fuel Cost Adjustment is $0.0408/kWh in July 2023. Month before it was $0.0280. So if I had PV grid-tie I would be expecting $0.055/kWh. Am paying $0.103320/kWh as of June 3, 2023. So if I would get half then it isn't so bad. Better than throwing it away. But the question is whether it will recover the added cost of a TVA Approved "designer"?

 

[Grumpycat]

I heard that PGE is pushing a new thing where they can borrow your EV's power combined with a new regulation(not yet passed) that would require all EV's have 2 way plugs. That way during times of high demand they could sap your EV's power, then refuel it later. Of course the price they give you for your ev's power would be lower than the price they resell you the power to recharge your ev. Also it would put an additional cycles on your EV battery. The concept of my EV being a backup battery for my personal use, but not for the grid at large.

Ain't Never Gonna Happen.

Very few EVs have bidirectional charge ports. No Teslas. The premium model of Ford F-150 Lightning does, but not the base model. Is touted as an emergency home power backup.

There may be a voluntary program one day, but as you point out the wear on the battery means the utility will have to pay the owner a premium above the going rate for power to cover the wear.

 

[Eagle1]

California Wants To Make Bidirectional Charging Mandatory For New Electric Vehicles

 

[WinterDeere]

This is the exact reason I'm not interested in grid tie any more. Utilities are sticking it to people who are just trying to save money. And they're buying your energy at 1.5c/kwh, then what, reselling it to another customer at 15c/kwh? That number varies widely, we were 11c/kwh 3 months ago, now we're 17c/kwh, more than 50% increase out of the blue. I understand them not wanting to pay for transmission, only generation. However around here, generation is the bulk of energy cost, while transmission is considerably lower.

Are you sure of your numbers? At least here, billing for transmission is on parity with generation, and has been for years. Many claim transmission costs are actually higher than generation, although I’m sure that varies with region. Are you sure your billing reflects the true cost of these two components?

 

[fatjay]

Are you sure of your numbers? At least here, billing for transmission is on parity with generation, and has been for years. Many claim transmission costs are actually higher than generation, although I’m sure that varies with region. Are you sure your billing reflects the true cost of these two components?

I can't speak for everywhere, but at least here, generation is 9.4c/kwh while transmission is 7.3c/kwh. Regardless of the transmission vs generation, they're giving you 1.5c/kwh on your exports. Lets say you export to your neighbor, will they be paying only transmission costs plus what they pay you in generation, or will they charge the full amount of transmission and generation, effectively having an 80%+ markup on what they pay to you vs what they charge the next guy. That's a gamestop business model. And then when you need power, they also want you to pay full rate, regardless of what they paid you for your power.

 

[ultrarunner]

I heard that PGE is pushing a new thing where they can borrow your EV's power combined with a new regulation(not yet passed) that would require all EV's have 2 way plugs. That way during times of high demand they could sap your EV's power, then refuel it later. Of course the price they give you for your ev's power would be lower than the price they resell you the power to recharge your ev. Also it would put an additional cycles on your EV battery. The concept of my EV being a backup battery for my personal use, but not for the grid at large.

Don’t know how far along but it’s on the table…

May just run a cable from the rent house too mine with a sun meter and same for water?

 

[WinterDeere]

I can't speak for everywhere, but at least here, generation is 9.4c/kwh while transmission is 7.3c/kwh. Regardless of the transmission vs generation, they're giving you 1.5c/kwh on your exports. Lets say you export to your neighbor, will they be paying only transmission costs plus what they pay you in generation, or will they charge the full amount of transmission and generation, effectively having an 80%+ markup on what they pay to you vs what they charge the next guy. That's a gamestop business model. And then when you need power, they also want you to pay full rate, regardless of what they paid you for your power.

Well, I'd expect to not get full retail rate selling power back to the grid, after all I get the convenience of using them as my unlimited battery. But I will agree that 1.5 cents going and 9.4 cents coming does feel like a mighty wide disparity. Here in PA, we've always gotten the same rate both ways, although I know that's changing.

Have you done a cost analysis of just buying and arranging your own local storage? Where's the break-even on that?

 

[ultrarunner]

1.5 going and 40 coming really brings it into prospective…

 

[fatjay]

Well, I'd expect to not get full retail rate selling power back to the grid, after all I get the convenience of using them as my unlimited battery. But I will agree that 1.5 cents going and 9.4 cents coming does feel like a mighty wide disparity. Here in PA, we've always gotten the same rate both ways, although I know that's changing.

Have you done a cost analysis of just buying and arranging your own local storage? Where's the break-even on that?

I've been aggressively researching for about a year now. I have an electrical engineering background so i'm at least basically familiar. I'm building my own system, but I want to make it scalable. Solar is simple, but the software in the inverters has been a bit tricky considering it's not very well documented. People just have the systems installed and don't know much about it.

My electric bill is high. Was high, then i cut back on usage by getting more efficient equipment, dropping my usage by about 1/3rd. Then electric went up by 50% in a month. I picked up some panels and an aio inverter to fiddle around with things, got my deep freeze off the grid. Was going to do grid tie, but then I was looking at the fee's to tie in, then the rates that they bought back, and thought that was insane.

So I switched focus to off grid, and that became super expensive, even DIY, mostly because the massive battery investment. So I was focusing on reducing usage and increasing efficiency all while buying solar panels when I found them cheap. I've been building a racking system to mount them when I figured out a hybrid system. It basically provides the best of both worlds. It's off grid, but if you have a period of poor light/overcast/storms/etc you can set it to tie into grid power to charge the batteries and provide electricity when needed.

As of right now, I'm at 24x240w panels and I'm going to be adding another 20x250w, the hybrid inverter i'm looking at is 13kw and takes 15kw of pv, and the battery i'm looking at is a 30kwh lifepo4. The system is just barely meeting my requirements. All in it'll cost me about 15k, the batteries being 9k, inverter at 3k, and panels around 2k, plus odds and ends at 1k. Payoff time is about 4 years at most if everything goes as planned.