5083E Running Duals?

[AGGIE00]

I can do that??? I was almost positive it was the exact same block and frame, just different fueling for the HP. I'm gonna cross my fingers and hope that my dealer is willing enought to do that! It would be so much easier than buying another tractor or trying to figure out something else like NOS or propane injection!

Good Luck!!! It is the same tractor as the 5101e except for hp output and tire size. The problem You will and I have run into is emissions. My dealer said it is absolutely possible and they would absolutely NOT do it. The fuel is controlled electronically, but I have yet to find a chip/programmer for it. If it was common rail no problem. I have thought of everything you have as far as dualls and horsepower and ultimately I will figure out the horsepower idea and larger tires when these wear out. Do you have firestones, cuz the goodyears on my 2012 are way better than the firestones were on the 2010?

 

[RollTideRam]

Just get a smaller disc. Not as much fun, but may work easier.

 

[500hp2500]

you can turn the fuel up on your tractor but there goes your warrenty and the 5101 and 5083 have completly different engines. and you have too much disk for your tractor you are eventually going to braek somthing. we pull a 18ft disk with a 345hp tractor

 

[AGGIE00]

you can turn the fuel up on your tractor but there goes your warrenty and the 5101 and 5083 have completly different engines. and you have too much disk for your tractor you are eventually going to braek somthing. we pull a 18ft disk with a 345hp tractor

How are they completely different engines. Same 4045, turbo and injection pump. I've gone over this with my Deere service manager over and over and they are the same. I hope he and I aren't mistaken. As a matter of fact the 6000 series has the same size engine, just different injection system and other items to get rid of the heat.

 

[Edward. S]

How are they completely different engines. Same 4045, turbo and injection pump. I've gone over this with my Deere service manager over and over and they are the same. I hope he and I aren't mistaken. As a matter of fact the 6000 series has the same size engine, just different injection system and other items to get rid of the heat.

I believe the 5E/M 5083/93 5085/95 use a Powertech M and the 5101E/5105M use a Powertech E and the 62/63/6430 standards use a Powertech E and the Premiums use a Powertech Plus.

 

[Tx Jim]

How are they completely different engines. Same 4045, turbo and injection pump. I've gone over this with my Deere service manager over and over and they are the same. I hope he and I aren't mistaken. As a matter of fact the 6000 series has the same size engine, just different injection system and other items to get rid of the heat.

Aggie
How do you explain the differences in short block part #s if the 2 models share the exact same engines?????? I can tell you from experience that just because the engines share the same cid/L size doesn't mean they are the same engine. If the JD service didn't prove your statement as incorrect then he's not a responsible service manager. I'm speaking as a former JD service manager from years gone by. Plus I had a brother that was an AGGIE
6415 RE520377 Short Block Assembly
5083E RE516102 Short Block Assembly

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

After reading this the most obvious solution that jumps out to me is this:

Give it a try pulling the disc - If it works - OK

If it does not work - "Sorry Dad - tractor will not pull the disc"

End of story. Much $$$$ saved.

 

[MattLynch]

I don't think you will have any problem at all pulling the disks. Manufacturers tell dealers not to re-rate engines, otherwise who would pay and extra 10 grand for the extra power when they could get it for a few hundred. The 5083 and 5101 are the same other then tires. It is common practice to re-rate truck engines with the same engine but often the power rating is matched to the drivetrain.

I was in my local Massey dealer a while ago while they were re-rating a 2660 HD from 60 to 80 pto hp. They simply used a pto dyno and adjusted fuel and possibly boost to match 2680 spec.

As others have said you should definitly try pulling the discs before making any changes, 83hp should be plenty for your discs. I pulled 15' discs with a 65 hp 2wd before I got my 5E.

 

[pjbci]

There is a difference between "pulling" a disk and actually "plowing" with it. An 80hp tractor will not do decent job with a 16ft disk. You will have to hold up the disk where it only scratches the surface and travel so slow that the dirt will not turn over.

I have a 14ft disc that I pull with a 105 pto hp tractor. My neighbor wanted to borrow it to pull behind his 70 hp tractor because it would "pull anything". When I asked him how it was working out he said it was pulling it just fine. Well I had to see this because that disk would load my 966 on the breaking pass. I went and watched him work. You could barely tell where he had run it. So, long story short, yes he was "pulling" it but no he was not "plowing" with it.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Good Luck!!! It is the same tractor as the 5101e except for hp output and tire size. The problem You will and I have run into is emissions. My dealer said it is absolutely possible and they would absolutely NOT do it. The fuel is controlled electronically, but I have yet to find a chip/programmer for it. If it was common rail no problem. I have thought of everything you have as far as dualls and horsepower and ultimately I will figure out the horsepower idea and larger tires when these wear out. Do you have firestones, cuz the goodyears on my 2012 are way better than the firestones were on the 2010?

Def have the firestones. Are your goodyears radials or bias? I know the bias ply tires wear like **** on asphalt but the radials sort of act funny under heavy loading in the field I have been told.

There is a difference between "pulling" a disk and actually "plowing" with it. An 80hp tractor will not do decent job with a 16ft disk. You will have to hold up the disk where it only scratches the surface and travel so slow that the dirt will not turn over.

I have a 14ft disc that I pull with a 105 pto hp tractor. My neighbor wanted to borrow it to pull behind his 70 hp tractor because it would "pull anything". When I asked him how it was working out he said it was pulling it just fine. Well I had to see this because that disk would load my 966 on the breaking pass. I went and watched him work. You could barely tell where he had run it. So, long story short, yes he was "pulling" it but no he was not "plowing" with it.

Well I completely agree with that, the field is not plowed yet, it just has the corn residue from last year on it. So the theory my FIL had was that it would cut up alot of the garbage left over from last year to make the plowing alot easier. I'm going to try it tonight before it rains and makes it impossible. I tend to agree with everybody about needing a significatly larger tractor to pull them in an already plowed field. point taken.

I think I have pretty much given up on the duals idea as well.
I didn't really purchase the tractor with primary tillage in mind. My only big horsepower requirement was my MX 10 and mowing/baling hay. If the tractor decides it will cooperate and pull the disc, fantastic. If I bury the machine to the axles so be it. I can always use the transport wheels to give the disc some flotation. Or I suppose I could use the MX 10 to chop that stuff up instead.

I'm still intrigued about turning up the power. I may need to look into that a little bit more. I think some guages would come in extremely handy. EGT/Boost/Fuel pressure. I guess I should just learn to not be the guy in the family with the new tractor?

 

[MattLynch]

I guess it all depends on the discs. Mine are probably 40 years old and don't compare to anything new(but they do a pretty good job). I plow in the fall and disc in the spring also so that helps. Let us know how it works out!

 

[AGGIE00]

Aggie
How do you explain the differences in short block part #s if the 2 models share the exact same engines?????? I can tell you from experience that just because the engines share the same cid/L size doesn't mean they are the same engine. If the JD service didn't prove your statement as incorrect then he's not a responsible service manager. I'm speaking as a former JD service manager from years gone by. Plus I had a brother that was an AGGIE
6415 RE520377 Short Block Assembly
5083E RE516102 Short Block Assembly

6415?????? I was talking about the 5101e. You really think it takes an entirely different engine design to get 18 additional hp? From what I understand, and you will probably correct me, the tractors are rated at x emissions based on hp. Add more fuel, increase hp, add emissions. The 5083e is designed and sold at x emissions and Deere can't change that after delivery. It seems as simple as my cummins that now produces 30% more hp with a chip and in turn more emissions and daddy government doesn't like that.

What does Aggie have to do with it?

 

[AKfish]

A 3020 is a LOT more tractor than the 5000 series Deeres, row crop tractor vs utility. Also the 3020 had rack and pinion axles that were much better suited to duals.

I think I remember quite well what a 3020 is/was... I sat on one for a number of years!

The transaxle assembly on the 3020 is heavier duty than the E series but I'd venture to argue that it's not any heavier than the 5000M series, however.

The diameter of the axle shaft and the size of the carrier bearings may be a whole different story, though. Worthy of additional study.

That said, I've seen other "utility" tractors with both rack and pinion axles and the hub axle configuration. Same tractor - same specifications - one for row crop adjustment is all.

AKfish

 

[blueriver]

There is a difference between "pulling" a disk and actually "plowing" with it. An 80hp tractor will not do decent job with a 16ft disk. You will have to hold up the disk where it only scratches the surface and travel so slow that the dirt will not turn over.

Thats right ... sink that disc to the hub and its a whole new ball game. If your simply discing up the corn stubble getting it ready for a bottom plow you'll pull it.

My 5520 pulls my 12' tandem disc just fine the first pass breaking the surface a couple inches, the second pass at 4-5 inches I start to loose traction and a third pass when I'm plowing near or at the disc hub even with 4x4 I really loose the traction and need to regulate the depth of the disc.

 

[Tx Jim]

6415?????? I was talking about the 5101e. You really think it takes an entirely different engine design to get 18 additional hp? From what I understand, and you will probably correct me, the tractors are rated at x emissions based on hp. Add more fuel, increase hp, add emissions. The 5083e is designed and sold at x emissions and Deere can't change that after delivery. It seems as simple as my cummins that now produces 30% more hp with a chip and in turn more emissions and daddy government doesn't like that.

What does Aggie have to do with it?

6415 entered into my post from your post I quoted. Here I repost your quote.Originally Posted by AGGIE00 View Post
How are they completely different engines. Same 4045, turbo and injection pump. I've gone over this with my Deere service manager over and over and they are the same. I hope he and I aren't mistaken. As a matter of fact the 6000 series has the same size engine, just different injection system and other items to get rid of the heat.[end quote] Since you had Aggie in your handle I thought you had probably attended Texas A&M.

 

[AGGIE00]

6415 entered into my post from your post I quoted. Here I repost your quote.Originally Posted by AGGIE00 View Post
How are they completely different engines. Same 4045, turbo and injection pump. I've gone over this with my Deere service manager over and over and they are the same. I hope he and I aren't mistaken. As a matter of fact the 6000 series has the same size engine, just different injection system and other items to get rid of the heat.[end quote] Since you had Aggie in your handle I thought you had probably attended Texas A&M.

Yes I am an Aggie, although I still don't know why that is relevant. The 5083 and 5101 both have the powertech 5045 engine. Your only example to me as to why they are different is a part number for a 6000 series engine. If they are different engines I would like to know, but everything I have found and been told is they are the same.

 

[Tx Jim]

Yes I am an Aggie, although I still don't know why that is relevant. The 5083 and 5101 both have the powertech 5045 engine. Your only example to me as to why they are different is a part number for a 6000 series engine. If they are different engines I would like to know, but everything I have found and been told is they are the same.

OK this statement of yours is how the model 6000 entered into this thread and again I'll quote you[/quote]As a matter of fact the 6000 series has the same size engine, just different injection system and other items to get rid of the heat[/quote]. No you didn't state the 5083E & the 6000 shared the same identical engine but you inferred that they did and in fact they don't. I went back and read a prior statement of yours about the 5083 & 5101 engines being the same and yes that is correct. Here's a list of tractors that the engines interchange.
8713 - PowerTech 4.5L 4045TLV53 Engine (Worldwide Edition) - 13Dec10 ( FR DE IT ES SV )
9817 - 5101E Limited Tractor (North American Edition) - 16Mar12 ( FR ES )
9818 - 5083E Limited Tractor (North American Edition) - 19Mar12 ( FR ES )
9819 - 5093E Limited Tractor (Engine: 4045TLV54,4045TLV60) North American Edition - 16Mar12 ( FR ES )
9945 - 5083EN Tractor (North American Edition) - 16Mar12 ( FR ES )
9946 - 5093EN Tractor (North American Edition) - 16Mar12 ( FR ES )
9947 - 5101EN Tractor (North American Edition) - 20Mar12 ( FR ES )

As far as me mentioning the Aggie part it was because of a personal joke between my Aggie brother and I. If I offended you by mentioning Aggie please accept my apology.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Thats right ... sink that disc to the hub and its a whole new ball game. If your simply discing up the corn stubble getting it ready for a bottom plow you'll pull it.

My 5520 pulls my 12' tandem disc just fine the first pass breaking the surface a couple inches, the second pass at 4-5 inches I start to loose traction and a third pass when I'm plowing near or at the disc hub even with 4x4 I really loose the traction and need to regulate the depth of the disc.

Well blue, you hit it spot on. I would def say my "little E" had her hands full. I'll do my best do describe things since i forgot my camera and was racing to beat the rain.... The fact that the fields were not freshly plowed but covered in packed dirt and corn stalks gave me some comfort actually.

I knew I was off to a good start when as soon as I hooked the hydraulics up I blew a line. Great, I knew I should have just said no. Anyways, $60 and a new line plus 40 min wasted to run to town and back and I'm back in business. I racked all the wings back, picked up the disc, threw her in high range and I was off down the road to the first field. This was the driest field of the bunch. I figured if I couldn't pull it in the dry, I wasn't even going to try to wetter fields. SO that field is pretty small and is only a couple acres. Pulled into the field, dropped, the wings, and the disc, pointed her uphill (oh boy) and started out in B2 (I have a 4X3 with a power reverser, so midrange 2nd gear) Way to dam slow, about 3.6 mph, so I grabbed another gear to get closer to the 6-7 mph Im supposed to be getting. SO 4wd, B3, and 2400 rpm, (right around my pto mark), and she was straining but pulling, I was stepping on and off the diff lock to kind of help things. Now the only place I reallyhad any problem was a little bit of a soft spot, driving uphill, and the discs buried. It happened fast enough I almost stalled the tractor before I could lift the disc. What really stinks is the noticeable lag in the motor when trying to run the hydraulics while the motor is bogging, NOT A GOOD COMBO!


The weird thing was how much a little grade difference made. Going uphill I had to feather the depth from time to time, Downhill, I could actually grab another gear!!! SO, I would never dream of trying to disc with a 16' transport disc in a freshly plowed field! I didn't have near enough tractor to handle the roughness of the field, or pull it at the speed that I needed to. Now I will say, I was impressed/depressed at how the tractor pulled. I never thought 83hp wasn't a big enough tractor. This was the first time I NEEDED more weight and more power to do what I wanted to do. I can only imagine how poorly this would have worked with worn out tires and an old, tired machine. I guess I should just stick to playing farmer instead of actual farming! :thumbsup:

One funny part about the pulling uphill, I found a WET spot, green grass in the middle of a field that was plowed last year. I started bumping the disc up before I got into it, Its not a good feeling with the tractor turning 2500rpm ,4wd and the DIff locked and you stop dead. Oh BABY! lol Thank god I could back down the hill and get a head of steam up for it.


So the short verison. the E pulled the discs. It was more than I should have put behind the tractor. Never would have worked in a plowed field. And, I found out the wings are coming off so we can make them a little more frield for my E and the 4020. Thanks for the input fellas!

 

[AGGIE00]

OK this statement of yours is how the model 6000 entered into this thread and again I'll quote you

As a matter of fact the 6000 series has the same size engine, just different injection system and other items to get rid of the heat[/quote]. No you didn't state the 5083E & the 6000 shared the same identical engine but you inferred that they did and in fact they don't. I went back and read a prior statement of yours about the 5083 & 5101 engines being the same and yes that is correct. Here's a list of tractors that the engines interchange.
8713 - PowerTech 4.5L 4045TLV53 Engine (Worldwide Edition) - 13Dec10 ( FR DE IT ES SV )
9817 - 5101E Limited Tractor (North American Edition) - 16Mar12 ( FR ES )
9818 - 5083E Limited Tractor (North American Edition) - 19Mar12 ( FR ES )
9819 - 5093E Limited Tractor (Engine: 4045TLV54,4045TLV60) North American Edition - 16Mar12 ( FR ES )
9945 - 5083EN Tractor (North American Edition) - 16Mar12 ( FR ES )
9946 - 5093EN Tractor (North American Edition) - 16Mar12 ( FR ES )
9947 - 5101EN Tractor (North American Edition) - 20Mar12 ( FR ES )

As far as me mentioning the Aggie part it was because of a personal joke between my Aggie brother and I. If I offended you by mentioning Aggie please accept my apology.[/QUOTE]

First, I'm proud of being an Aggie so no offense taken, just didn't know where you were going with it. Second I thought I understood you and others as saying the 83 and 01 had different engines and my service rep didn't know what he was talking about. I did mention the 6000 series as having the 5045, but I thought I clarified that there were differences. I would be curious to know if the differences were are internal, or only having to do with heads and fuel system.

Back to the 5045 powertech. It should be safe to assume that getting over 100hp out of the engine can be safely done without overpowering the rest of the drivetrain. I'm of the belief that I can install larger tires, add weight, up the horsepower and have a tractor that can pull significantly more than what I can now without the 6000 dollar additional cost of the 5101.

 

[Tx Jim]

JD didn't make a 5045 engine but they did make a 4045. I think you're going to end up drastically shortening the life of your tractor by substantially increasing the horsepower and trying to plow similar to a factory larger HP tractor.

I'll give you one small comparison of difference in parts of the rear axle size differences in your 5083E & a 6415
rear axle brg 5083E JD8946 inside Dimension 2.687 IN
rear axle brg 6415 AL156506 Inside Dimension 3.346 IN

No offense intended but did you ever hear the Aggie joke of how many Aggie's it took to "pop" Popcorn?