5030 VS L48

[MarkV]

Just so no one gets confused, the L48 has 25.9 gpm of hydraulic flow and the L39 has 23.4 but that is split between 3 pumps. It will run some of the hydraulic attachments that a skidsteer will but not any of the high flow attachments like a brush cutter. You would for sure be ok with an auger and Kubota shows a demo hammer being used on the backhoe of the L39 and L48 in their ads.

MarkV

 

[_RaT_]

and... one of those pumps is dedicated soley for the power steering. I saw Muleskinner mention the higher GPM equated to a more powerful and quicker loader. Well, that is not quite accurate. The loader on my L3830 is much faster then that of my previous tractor, an L48 yet had less flow to loader. Where the power comes in is pressure, cylinder diameter and leverage. I see folks often quoting the GPM of the L48 and the L39 as being super duper, remember, with the useable flow being split between two pumps and no way to really combine those two, your not getting the kind of flow to an implement that you might think. The idea behind the two implement pumps was to allow for the boom swing to be independent of all the other hoe functions. Rat...

 

[Runk]

Thanks for the explanations of the hydraulics on the L39 and L48, this helps.
I did a search of the L48 info in past posts and am getting a clearer picture in my mind now of the pros and cons of the TLB's and the CUT's.
I am realizing that if I want to run the hydraulic attachments designed for Bobcats I should get a Bobcat type machine.
And, the converstaion having to do with the HST trans on the L48 seems to indicate that the HST not as versatile as the GST type trans.
Wondering if the HST is going to do it for Muleskinner??? HST gearing in low and medium too low??
Just my humble opinion.
Thanks again.
Runk

 

[_RaT_]

Whether HST will be more benficial for you over GST is tough to say. I find the infinite amount of control with HST to be fantastic. I often find myself using my toothbar and just touching a root, rock, concrete etc with just enough finesse to pop it, toss it etc. With HST it is a snap. I also find that I can creep at fractions of inch which odd as it may sounds, works super well when using an auger while it arcs down. There are just things available to you with HST that a gear can not do. On the flip side, the HST with its range of 0 to 4.3 (on the L48) mph in medium is slow and you will find yourself needing to get to high range to move dirt any distance. On the L48 it is not a straight line shift into high, you have to job it. On my L3830 it is a straight line and shifting is pretty fast. Medium has about all the power you will need on the L48 with the possible exception of going uphill with a boxscraper loaded. I guess what my conclusion is, both transmissions are really nice. The HST while limited to ranges, is also the ultimate in control and really does move dirt fast. For real dirt moving, I don't know how you can compete with a skidsteer or trac steer, not to mention functionality.

 

[monkeymonk]

new here. i love my l48. worked a 3430 a bit. tested a 5030,l39 but couldnt pass up the 48.HST is quick and easy, this machine has a great lift capacity,pulls a ripper up hill impresively and is very versatile. not rushing it took 12 minutes to take off an properly stow the 3 pt, and 7min to put the hoe back on. the first time was way longer. mine came with quick attach front and rear, makes all the diffrence when changing from fork to bucket or 12in hoe to 24in literaly takes a minute /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Excited to get the hydraulic auger and hydraulic box scraper soon..I added the thumb and its great for moving large rocks and logs for sawing/milling. have a 6in chipper as well.the auto level on the front bucket keeps debris from falling back on you or the machine /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif and the pre filter sticking out of the hood makes for a longer lasting air filter especially when doing field work..plowing,ripping,tilling. digging septic is a breeze for the l48 great reach and break out force. pallet fork to bucket with quick attack is a snap as well as fun. unloaded a pallet of redi mix in a breeze just dont try to raise the pallet from to low down kinda heavy.totally happyworking this machine does well on inclines and hill sides.high gear is faster than i want for the road no complaints just like it slow on the road, fast on the mountain. paid $38,000 tractor, backhoe, quick attach front and rear. "love my l48, just hogs the bed"

 

[monkeymonk]

the l48 has a implement GPM of around 15gpm actually 13.5gpm not 100% sure but according to my dealer, last month looking at augers. thats implement gpm if you got an auger you would be looking at a max flow 15gpm min-6gpm an auger with max-25gpm min-10gpm would be under powered. stil expensive just the auger and head unit is 2,400 not including the foot pedal or other hydraulic lines.etc..

 

[Muleskinner]

I would like to clarify my comments on total hydraulic flow regarding FEL and three point hitch performance. I know total GPM has more to do with running hydraulic attachments that use a stator motor than creating lift capacity. A FEL and a three point hitch don't really need or use much hydraulic flow to operate. But, when you have larger, higher capacity pumps that generate a lot of GPM, higher pressure output is usually a by product. Higher hydraulic operating pressure makes the FEL and three point work quicker and gives them more lift capacity, depending on the diameter of the FEL cylinders used. The FEL on my L49 is one strong loader. When I tried out the L48 the loader felt like it was even stronger than the L39. In my business I do not anticipate using a FEL attachement that uses a stator motor to run the tool. I need high lift capacity and a lot of breakout force from my FEL. Short of getting a JD 210 LE I think the L48 will do just fine.

As far as the debate between HST VS GST goes, both have their advantages and disadvantages. If Kubota would design a GST with a torque converter, like most of the other full size construction tractors out there, they would have the perfect transmission tractor combination. The main problem I found with GST is when you finish pushing up against something stationary like a dirt pile, stump, or whatever. At the end of your forward movement you have to push in the clutch or shift the shuttle to neutral to disengage the engine from the tires. When loading the bucket with dirt, gravel, rock, or whatever, the drivetrain is pretty torque loaded as you finish your push. Shifting the shuttle to nuetral tends to be a bit more violent, if that's the right word, than pushing in the clutch. (Kind of like pushing up against a tree with a manual transmission 4X4 in low range) If the 4X4 had an automatic transmission you could push on the brakes as you let off of the accelerater, change gears and back away from the tree. If Kubota would add a torque converter this short coming would be resolved. My dealer said Kubota doesn't because most of their business is AG. Using a torque converter in a GST pulling field impliments would burn up the converter. I'm not sure I buy that explination unless the operator is running in the wrong gear slipping the converter at low speeds. (Kind of like someone slipping the clutch on a manual transmission because they are in the wrong gear)

The GST transmission is great for upshifting on the run when you want to transport a load in your FEL across a large lot or where ever. The GST also gives you a much greater range of gear ratios to use when pushing or pulling hard. This is the real advantage of GST. I also like the fact you use a foot accelerator to accelerate and decelerate the engine. With HST you run the engine at a constant RPM, as all the engine does is run hydraulic pumps.

The HST shines manuvering in super close quarters. Also when you have finished your push into whatever you are loading, you can keep a small amount of forward preasure on the bucket as you curl it upward to pick up the load.

Both transmissions have their strong and weak points. If Kubota would put a torque converter with the GST transmission there would be no need for HST.

 

[_RaT_]

<font color="blue"> If Kubota would put a torque converter with the GST transmission there would be no need for HST. </font>

I could argue that point only because with about 1000 hours now under my belt using a HST I have found that when mowing down steep terrain such as that which I encounter when backing down into my pond I can be in low or medium range, creep at an infinitely slow speed (literally from 0 to 7 mpg in medium range) down until my mower is in the water, tractor at a very high angle, let up on the hydro pedal, no brakes, creep forward again at an infinite speed between 0 and 7 mph all without shifitng and using the brakes/clutch and the worries of needing to do that instantly for fear of getting me and the tractor wet. Having the infinite speed control is handy because the weeds increase in density as I get further to the pond allowing me to keep the RPM up. Having the HST basically lock up the tractor in neutral is a huge bonus. I can apply the same method to post hole drilling all the while adjusting my position forward or backwards and never having to kill the auger by depressing the clutch. With my past tractors like the Kubota L4850, you simply cannot do this. The mowing trick gets tricky and your full of anxiety the whole time. Being able to instantly go from forward to reverse will be your biggest difference in use between HST and GST even if GST had a torque convertor which I suspect if it did, you would find plenty of folks who would not like it on these compact tractors. I find that when doing loader work, I can do far more work in less time with HST compared to my old manual (never had GST, only tried it) but must admit, there is a learning curve to doing it properly. I actually prefer the HST on my L3830 over the L48, but then, my dirt moving needs are no longer that extensive. As I recall, the operating pressure on the L48 and L3830 are roughly the same, however the much smaller loader cylinders fill much faster on the L3830 over the L48 which was no slow poke either. I found operating the L48 at about 1800 to 2000 RPM to be ideal, a speed that will be very smooth and quiet. Ironicly you mentioned the JD 210, I saw three brand new ones today on a truck, all with 4N1's. That would be the epitome of a small work loader. I suspect the loader and bucket weighs as much as my entire L3830. I hope you enjoy the L48. I moved a few thousand yards with mine prior to selling it. I became so efficient with its HST that when buying my L3830 and trying the GST out on my hills, quite frankly there was just no way GST was going to work out. Had my land been more level, it would definitely have.
PS- I have one more interest free payment on my L3830 and I am done paying. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Muleskinner]

Oh I agree HST is a great way to go or I would not be buying the L48. The high points you make about it are valid, as I use my B7800 all the time and like it.

I'm just saying the GST would be much better if it had a torque converter. I watch my friend run his Case skip with a converter. It's great, because instead of having to push in the clutch or shift the shuttle to neutral, he just lets off of the gas and comes to a stop like a car with an automatic trans. Much better than the converterless GST. Kubota should offer it both ways.

By the way, we finally got soaked here yesterday and last night. First real rain since the first of January. The ground was dry and like powder. Now I can go grade without a water truck!

 

[_RaT_]

Nothing like nice damp soil to work. We are getting hammered pretty good up here. Its kind of exciting to have massive down pours and 2 to 3 feet of snow drop in one storm in the mountains just up from me. I hope you enjoy the L48, you made a couple of excellent points that were probably overlooked by most. Having the lower links on the 3 pt attach to the frame instead of the cast axle housing is a real bonus. I ran my box blade backwards like a dozer all day cutting mountains of dirt that I know (from experience) would snap my L3830's cast axle housing.

 

[slowzuki]

A hydraulic primer for fixed displacment pumps our tractors have:

flow is a function of rpm, flow changes speed of hydraulics
Pressure is limited only by the load applied and the pressure relief valve.

So! High flow = fast
High pressure = stronger given the same cylinder/motor

 

[_RaT_]

Right you are Ken. Since I very rarely ever run my tractor at full RPM which is about 2600 RPM, I am never at my pumps rated GPM but have found even at that, I still have hydraulics moving as fast as I want. My typical RPM is about 1800 to 2200 RPM depending on what I am doing.

 

[rbargeron]

Hi RaT, you have added a lot of illumination to this thread - the detailed description of mowing down to water's edge was especially interesting to me - the fact that HST locks between forward and reverse is a big plus for operating on steep slopes. With hydraulic shuttle and a slow gear it isn't bad - but the HST is much better I'm sure. One of my mowing situations is the edge of a field that is a few feet above a rocky roadside ditch. I back down into the ditch from the high side, with one hand on the 3-pt lever lifting an RM-990 over rocks, left hand on the shuttle, left foot ready with the clutch if needed, right foot on the brakes -need to steer with my nose. It can get busy. With a little extra rpm and the mower lifted, ther can be a small wheelie changing direction unless I feather the clutch. The HST would be like having an extra hand and foot. After about 200 feet of crabbing sideways, I get smoother at it, but it's not relaxing.
Good to hear your voice - take care, Dick B

 

[Muleskinner]

Okay. Everyone here who has followed this thread is going to think I've lost my mind. I think my dealer does. Probably so, but after many restless nights, a lot of research, reading and considering everyones opinions, test driving tractors, more research, I have decided to keep my L39 for now. Why you ask? Well because I don't think I can beat it's performance unless I go to an M series Kubota, at which time I might as well buy a JD 210LE. My dealer had a guy walk in and offer to buy the L48 today and I told him "Sell it."

I am going to have my dealer install the new Quick Attach 72" Eagle Talon grapple I ordered next week. This grapple should make removing and loading brush and other loose items an easy task. It weighs 1050 pounds. The L39 should handle it fine. Thanks to everyone for their replies regarding this thread.

 

[Runk]

Well, this has been avery informative converation!!
Glad you made the decision you did, Muleskinner....was starting to worry about you.
And thanks for the PM re the the L39. Didnt realize it was there til a minute ago.
The grapple sounds serious, please post pix when you get it if you can.
Thanks again,

(now I am thinking of trading for a L39 of L48.
Curious on how the L39 3 cylinder engine compares to my L4330's 4 cylinder???).

Runk

 

[Muleskinner]

Runk. The L39 engine is an L5030 engine with one cylinder less. The bore and stroke are the same. They look the same to look at them, except the 3 cylinder is shorter.

Yea I was doing a job yesterday and began to think,,,,what the H... am I doing???? This tractor is all I need for now. I think I got swepted away in the JD 210LE thing and as I was unable to afford the JD and could not haul it, I was trying to make something happen to compensate. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[_RaT_]

With the 210 you enter into another whole dimension. Its where the term "heavy duty" does apply. Even after using my L48 which by compact standards is "heavy duty", it is not even close to the JD 210. But there are trade offs for having HD. Weight, manuverability and trailerability being the key ones. I wonder if Mark Chalkeys EarthForce type would fit your needs? Its now an IR (Ingersol) product.

 

[Runk]

RaT, so what is the Earthforce?

With all these ideas from this conversation rattling around in my head I took the L4330 out to prep the road (live up 1 1/2 mile dirt road) for the rain, remaking water bars etc which means making ditches to direct the runoff away from low areas etc......and the CUT really is an amazing thing. Four wheel drive with locking dif makes so incredibly much traction I am always dazzled by how good it works. With the box blade cranked over, and full of dirt, and with the tractor at crazy angles and threading my way between Joshuas and Junipers it just does the work.
I get that (and this has been said over and over on TBN) any one tractor cant do all things perfectly, neverthe less thru this conversation and others I see the L4330 with GST is a great skiploader. While I may complain, I am SO glad despite not having done my research before buying that I wound up getting the 853 loader with a 4in1 bucket and the TnT boxblade setup.
It really is a great machine.
And the folding Rops lets it into my garage. Thstd nice.

Some other backhoe type machine is in order for my purposes in the near future, and any bright ideas will be appreciated.
Thanks again for all the pot stirring.
Thanks to all.
Runk

 

[_RaT_]

Earthforce was bought by Ingersol the folks that make Bobcat skidsteer. Here is the link. Its like a compact in size but far more industrial in build. As I recall, you cannot remove the hoe, on the otherhand, there are a ton of attachments for the front loader which is incredibly powerful. Ingersol Bobcat loader/hoes

Your right about the usefulness of the compacts. I love mine although in another month or so I will be selling mine. I think the Bobcot hoe/loader would be my choice over the L39 if for no other reason just the extra beef it incorporates into the design. The 250 model is turbocharged. I have no idea of what they cost. My experience with Bobcat brand products has been superb and many of them use Kubota diesels.

 

[Muleskinner]

Rat. I looked at the Bobcat site regarding the Earthforce machine. To me it looks like it is intended solely for use in multiple house, residential housing site construction. Or commercial city type construction. As a CUT or TLB I don't think it would come close to the versatility of the Kubota line. With small Bob Cat type tires all around it would be worthless pulling a box blade. And as you said, it appears the hoe is a fixed component. There is no mention of a three point hitch. Besides, it's ugly! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif