48" or 54" box scraper for B7610?

seapea · Jun 25, 2005

48\" or 54\" box scraper for B7610?

I'm trying to figure out if I should get a 48" or 54" box scraper for a B7610. Both have 4 scarifiers. I figure the B7610 has the HP for a 54", but because of the light weight of the B7610 I'm wondering how much tire spinning there will be with a 54" box full of dirt. I definitely don't plan on filling the tires for added weight. I might add detachable weights like wheel weights if they will help.

Also, is a 72" grader blade too big? I prefer bigger mostly so there is more blade outside of the tractor wheels to grab the dirt piled up by the previous pass. It seems that a 60" blade wouldn't leave much blade outside of the wheels, especially when running at a 30 degree angle.

btolle · Jun 25, 2005

Re: 48\" or 54\" box scraper for B7610?

I have a B7510, 4' box scraper and 6' blade.

The 54" box blade would probably be a better choice. Measure the outside width of your rear tires, it will probably be 53" so the 54" box would just cover the tire tracks. If I were to buy a new box blade I would buy a 54" and you have 3 more HP than I do so you should not have any real problem pulling it. If it is hard to pull with the box overflowing then don't fill the box as full. The extra width to cover the tire tracks would be worth it to me.

I started to buy a 5' straight blade until I realized how much narrower the cut would be with the blade angled. With the 6' and the blade angled the cut is still a few inches wider than the tire width. With a 5' I think you would barely cover the tire tracks.

Bill Tolle

Bob_Skurka · Jun 25, 2005

Re: 48\" or 54\" box scraper for B7610?

I have a 24hp tractor that weighs a bit more than your B7610. I use a Midwest 48" box blade. My soil conditions are very heavy clay. The tractor I use with that box blade struggles in the heavy clay. Now I have also used it on different property with different soil conditions and found that it is not the horsepower that is the major limit, it is the traction from the weight that is the problem. In sandy soil, I would say you could easily use a 54" box blade for contouring the land. In loam I think you could use it but it would struggle. In clay, I can guarantee you that you will overwhelm the tractor and stop it dead.

Now if you are moving loose material, then I think you could use the 54" box. If you are trying to dig into hard ground with the scarifiers, then it is too big.

As for the scraper blade, I use a Midwest 60" and find it to be a maximum useable size for my soil. Again, as with the box blade, if you are moving sand, loam or loose rock, you won't struggle too much, if you are in clay then you will simply stop the tractor dead in its tracks. Light to moderate snow will be no problem with either a 60" or a 72" blade. Ditto for loose material.

I usually prefer light weight tractors like your Kubota for most tasks and most implements around a small property, but box and scraper blades both can stop light tractors and simply leave them spinning their wheels. As you don't say what you plan to do, I will advise on the cautious side and suggest if you are moving loose materials, or if your soil conditions are light, then you can upsize.

You may also want to reveiw this recent thread: Box Blade Photo Comparision Thread

seapea · Jun 26, 2005

Re: 48\" or 54\" box scraper for B7610?

( I have a B7510, 4' box scraper and 6' blade.

The 54" box blade would probably be a better choice. Measure the outside width of your rear tires, it will probably be 53" so the 54" box would just cover the tire tracks. If I were to buy a new box blade I would buy a 54" and you have 3 more HP than I do so you should not have any real problem pulling it. If it is hard to pull with the box overflowing then don't fill the box as full. The extra width to cover the tire tracks would be worth it to me.

I started to buy a 5' straight blade until I realized how much narrower the cut would be with the blade angled. With the 6' and the blade angled the cut is still a few inches wider than the tire width. With a 5' I think you would barely cover the tire tracks.

Bill Tolle)

I don't actually have the tractor yet, but the specs on the B7610 have the tread width at 46.3", and your B7510 at 42.4". However, both have adjustable rear tread widths. Maybe you have yours adjusted all the way out. Also, I don't know which tires are used when they spec the tread width. Probably Ags, which I think are narrower than the industrials I'll be getting. I guess I'll need to give the dealer a call and get an accurate measurement.

seapea · Jun 26, 2005

Re: 48\" or 54\" box scraper for B7610?

( I have a 24hp tractor that weighs a bit more than your B7610. I use a Midwest 48" box blade. My soil conditions are very heavy clay. The tractor I use with that box blade struggles in the heavy clay. Now I have also used it on different property with different soil conditions and found that it is not the horsepower that is the major limit, it is the traction from the weight that is the problem. In sandy soil, I would say you could easily use a 54" box blade for contouring the land. In loam I think you could use it but it would struggle. In clay, I can guarantee you that you will overwhelm the tractor and stop it dead.

Now if you are moving loose material, then I think you could use the 54" box. If you are trying to dig into hard ground with the scarifiers, then it is too big.

As for the scraper blade, I use a Midwest 60" and find it to be a maximum useable size for my soil. Again, as with the box blade, if you are moving sand, loam or loose rock, you won't struggle too much, if you are in clay then you will simply stop the tractor dead in its tracks. Light to moderate snow will be no problem with either a 60" or a 72" blade. Ditto for loose material.

I usually prefer light weight tractors like your Kubota for most tasks and most implements around a small property, but box and scraper blades both can stop light tractors and simply leave them spinning their wheels. As you don't say what you plan to do, I will advise on the cautious side and suggest if you are moving loose materials, or if your soil conditions are light, then you can upsize.

)

I'll be doing quite a bit of grading on a flat one acre field to smooth it out. There are some low and high spots from poor grading done after a leach field was put in about 10 years ago, plus lots of bumps from tractor work and gopher hills.

I have nothing but clay. I'll break up the clay first with scarifiers. This will have to wait until after the first rains in fall since the ground is like cement right now. Timing is critical since if I wait too long then it will all just be mud for the winter.

Since both box blades have 4 scarifiers, they'll probably handle breaking the ground equally well if I don't try to also move dirt at the same time. After doing the rough grading with the box blade, I'll do the finishing grading with the grading blade. I've been worried about how well the 54" will move the clay, and it sounds like your saying it would be best if I went with the 48".

How far outside your tread width does the 60" grader blade reach? I'm thinking only about 6", which doesn't sound like enough. Isn't the dirt moved by the previous pass usually more than 6" wide? I suppose if the grader blade offsets a few inches then this would be ok, but I think most blades don't. I haven't used one yet so I don't know what it's like to actually work with one. Can you use your 3PH stabilizers to force the 3PH lift arms to shift the blade towards one side a few inches?

I also could till the soil before trying to move any dirt. This probably won't help with the box blade work much, but I'm think it might be useful after doing the rough grading with the box blade to make the grader blade's job a bit easy.

jyoutz · Jun 26, 2005

Re: 48\" or 54\" box scraper for B7610?

I agree. I have a JD 4100 (20 HP) and a 54" box blade. I'm glad I don't have the 48" unit, because it's so much easier to do things if the blade is a little larger than your wheel tracks. I have also weighted the blade down with about 150 lbs. of steel on top of it. I use it as ballast when using the loader and it really helps with digging. Whenever I bog down, I just don't take as much material at one time.

SeymourBota · Jun 26, 2005

Re: 48\" or 54\" box scraper for B7610?

I have a B2410 and pull a 60" box blade to maintain a gravel road. You certainly would not want to go larger than this but if the surface conditions are not too hard, you can even use a 60".
I also have a 6 ft grader blade- not problem at all for this tractor.
My tires are not loaded, either.

Bob_Skurka · Jun 26, 2005

Re: 48\" or 54\" box scraper for B7610?

 After doing the rough grading with the box blade, I'll do the finishing grading with the grading blade. 

For finish grading & smoothing the ground in open areas, I find it is easier to use a landscape rake after the box blade work, and not a grader blade. A B7610 could easily handle a 72" landscape rake. My grader blade is a Midwest Tilt/Swivel/Offset blade, it is a great blade, but I like landscape rake better for preparing ground for grass seed/etc. It also pulls the "clumps" of clay to the end of the area, but leaves the soil that fits between the tines, or falls under the tines. Just my preference.

One acre . . .
nothing but clay . . .
Since both box blades have 4 scarifiers, they'll probably handle breaking the ground equally well if I don't try to also move dirt at the same time. 

Yes, if you can run with the scarifiers down and the box up, then either will break up the ground with just the scarifiers, however, if you are really looking to do that you will be making a lot of passes to break it up and constantly adjusting the top link for aggressiveness of the scarifier teeth. My suggestion would be to order a hydraulic top link from your Kubota dealer. I never knew how AMAZING they were until the lovely Mrs_Bob got me one for Christmas this past year. (actually she got me an IE Top-N-Tilt kit from Mark Carter at CCM, but the top link is the really useful part and makes box blading MUCH easier and am now looking to put a hydraulic top link on my other tractor).

If you have the rock hard clay like I have, I would still recommend a 48" box blade, but we each have different conditions and experiences.

What amazes me is the difference that soil makes in how the tractors perform. I can literally stop the TC24 with a 48" box blade at the house. I can do the very same with the B2910 with a 60" box blade. But take either up to my office/warehouse where I have moderately sandy loam and nothing in the ground will stop either tractor. That experience on totally different soil conditions is why I tend to offer the advice I offer. I am typically more concervative than others, and I am typically descriptive of soil conditions so others, who have either similar or different conditions, can decide if I am being too concervative or spot on, with my recommendations. I fully believe that the guys with sandy soil can and do use 5' box blades with great success, but I don't think you'll be able to do that with rock hard clay soil unless you move up in tractor size & weight.

rswyan · Jun 26, 2005

Re: 48\" or 54\" box scraper for B7610?

I have a B2910 with a 60" Woods box blade mostly used in heavy clay and I have similar results as Bob - it is possible to stop the B2910 in the heavy stuff I'm running in.

btolle · Jun 26, 2005

Re: 48\" or 54\" box scraper for B7610?

( I don't actually have the tractor yet, but the specs on the B7610 have the tread width at 46.3", and your B7510 at 42.4". However, both have adjustable rear tread widths.)

The specs say tread width (min). The figure is the minimum and that may be to the center of the tires.

My 53" figure is the actual measurement to the outside of the rear tires (R4'). My wheels are adjusted one notch in from the maximum possible width. That was the way they were adjusted when I bought it. I could probably gain a couple of inches of width by moving them out to the last hole.

The Operator's Manual for both models says that the max. "tread" for a B7510 with "farm" tires is 39.6" and for the B7610 is 41.9". That is obviously the measurement to the center of the tread. Notice the term they use is "tread" not width.

It is best to measure the actual tractor because the manual is sometimes confusing and does not give the max and min outside measurements.

They show the max. box blade width for both models as 54" but say the max weight of a box blade is 375# for the 7510 and 500# for the 7610.

Given the hired help some places have I would go and measure it myself before buying an implement. I know how to read a tape measure and I know how to measure the max tire width. I am not willing to bet that the "gofer" they send out to measure knows what I know.

Overall I would rate Kubota's Operator's Manual as "acceptable". I have certainly seen better.

( Since both box blades have 4 scarifiers, they'll probably handle breaking the ground equally well if I don't try to also move dirt at the same time. )

I keep my scarifiers set on a middle notch and they hang about 1" below the bottom of the box which is just enough to break up the soil and drag it at the same time but I don't have the clay you have.

The Top and Tilt is especially useful. I can tilt the box blade forward (or "up) and the teeth will dig in more. As I near the place where I want to deposit the dirt I start tilting the BB back which raises the teeth and the cutting edge. The higher I raise the BB the more it allows the dirt to go under the BB and spread it out.

If you are going to be doing a lot of dirt work I would recommend the TnT. I ended up spending around $800 for the setup from Mark. That includes the cost of some hoses I had to have remade because I measured wrong when I ordered. (Hey, I can measure tire width accurately, but hoses are a "moving target" and a lot harder to measure.)

The tilt part is nice if I am driving across a slope and trying to level it. Besides, I may be the only person in Jasper County that has TnT so it impresses folks. Heck, I may also be the only person in the county with a toothbar on a CUT, the dealer thought it was great when I had it out there, wait until he sees the TnT.

Bill Tolle