4700????

gvw · Nov 8, 2000

Sorry - being the new guy I just posted my ???'s in the wrong place (Pricing Forum). Anyway , I'm very close to buying a 4700 MFWD w/460 FEL (w/ High volume bucket), 48 backhoe, MX6 Rottary cutter, 7' rear blade and "Curtis" canopy.
Unit will be utilized for pushing snow (reside @ 8000' in Col.), scrapping and stacking horsey doo-doo, murdering willows and sage on 180 acres up by Steamboat Springs plus performing general horse ranch functions.
My first question is tires - R1 or R4's - I was born and raised on farm equipment that only knew R1 style tires -which I thought was the answer until I observed several postings that indicated R4's were stronger due to a higher ply count. Traction on snow and ice is my primary concern with some minimal concern to boggy conditions while attacking the willows with the rottary cutter. Tearing up a lawn is not an issue.
Second question is telescopic draft links for a 4700 - dealer is indicating that they are not available on 4700 units and that I would have to go up to my second choice tractor (5310 which I have decided against due to the $'s though I still would consider - GAG!) Any aftermarket units available for the adjustable draft links?
I also would like a hard sided cab but the pictures that the dealer showed me of the Curtis unit were not very appealing appearance wise and appeared to be way short on visiblity when compared to the one found on those "Orange Units". Are there any other units (cabs) that I should look at?
Lastly - I am planning on purchasing unit with a Hydrostatic trans (for loader work) not necessarily for me but so the wife can also feel generally comfortable on the machine - was originally looking at PowrReverser but am leaning to the Hydorstatic unless someone can convince me otherwise.
Looking forward to your qualified and experienced responses.

Bird · Nov 8, 2000

gvw, if traction is your main concern, I'd say go with the R1 tires. They'll give you the best traction. The R4s are harder to puncture if you're going to be running over thorns or other things such as that, but you sacrifice a little traction. I'm running R1s on my Kubota and so far have gotten on puncture from a mesquite thorn.

And I sure think you're right about getting the hydrostatic transmission. I wouldn't want anything else, gets the work done faster, easier, and safer.

No experience with the cabs, so can't help you there.

Bird

ejb · Nov 9, 2000

gvw,

What is the difference in price on the 4700 and the 5310? I know it was a step up to get to the bigger series, but in my opinion anyway, you get a LOT more tractor once you get into the 5000/ten series. I had originally looked at the smaller Kubotas and then took a drive by the JD dealer, which was a lot farther from me, and was really impressed with the JD 5000 series machines. I originally was eyeing the 5310, but ended getting the 5410, and I'll tell you there is no comparison between the 5310/5410 and the 4000 series tractors.

It sounds like you have a lot of land to take care of, and could justify getting into the 5000 series, so I would give it serious consideration, especially if you are going to start adding things onto the 4000 series in order to make it more suitable for you.

Since it sounds like the lawn is not an issue for you, just make sure the 5000 series are not physically too big for what you need to do with it (i.e. will it fit in your barn etc).

I love my JD 5410, and evertime I get on it I am impressed and happy I got it...a very frew times I wishes it was just a little bit smaller, but more frequently I am glad I got the bigger machine when I have some hard work for it and need the extra weight/power.

Also, keep in mind a 6 foot cutter may be a tad too much for the 4700 if you are truly bushhoggin (as opposed to mowing fields of grass), when that blade starts spinning and wacking into a lot of branches/stumps/saplings, a lighter tractor will tend to shake around quite a bit, whereas a heavier tractor won't even notice it.

I use the 7 foot cutter (the JD717, MX series wasn't available) and the 5410 handles it easily.

Good luck.

roysallis · Nov 9, 2000

gvw, I have a 5210 (45hp @ PTO) with an MX6 cutter and have not had any problem pulling the cutter. I am cutting pasture grass but my land is very hilly. If the 4700 had been available when I bought the 5210 I would have bought it instead. I am thinking about trading for a 4700 since the hp is not much less and I can get the HST. The 5310 is nice but if you really want power go to the 5410/MFWD/PowrReverser. It should do all you want it to do, especially if you are going to add a backhoe. But, there is the problem of more $$$$$$$$$. I do not know if telescoping hitch arms are available but the ones on the 4700 will raise and lower a little bit. Please let me know what the asking price for the 4700/HST/R1 is.
Thanks

ejb · Nov 9, 2000

Just in case anyone misunderstood my post, I wasn't suggesting that a 4700 couldn't *pull* a 6 foot cutter, no doubt it can, and no doubt it could pull it, and spin the blades and cut grass easily...what I was trying to say, was if you planned on doing any brush-cutting of anything other than trivial saplings, you may find the tractor not heavy enough to be stable when it really starts wacking into things. Maybe a 4700 with a loader and loaded tires wouldn't have a problem, but it is worth thinking about.

I agree with roysallis's comments, that if you like the 5310, you'll LOVE the 5410 (thats what I ended up with). More weight, more power, 4cyl, engine etc....in for a penny, in for a pound I say....

gvw · Nov 9, 2000

Price that I'm getting on the 4700/R1/HST and 460 loader is $26K --- inc few extras such as wheel weights, back light, 73" bucket.

dmccarty · Nov 9, 2000

I just bought a 4700 with the 460 FEL, MX6, and JD 48 Backhoe. I have done a lot of work over the last few weeks with the backhoe and FEL. A 4n1 bucket is an AWESOME tool. If you have stuff you need to pickup instead of scoop up, consider the 4n1 bucket.

I have only lightly used the MX6. I did manage to bounce it off some 4 inch stumps but that was not problem.

My 460 was NOT setup correctly by the dealer. They are fixing this as we speak and I should have it back Friday. All at their cost. As others have said, and it CANNOT be repeated enough, the dealer is the most important part of buy a tractor. So far they have bent over backwards to make things right for me. It was their mechanics fault and they have owned up to it. I'm satisfied so far. The problem with the 460 is that there can/might be a problem attaching the FEL to the tractor. There are very few adjustments that can be done with the FEL design and if everything is just not right the FEL will not lock onto the tractor correctly. This problem SHOULD be caught by the dealer. In my case, we could get the FEL onto the tractor but it took more work than it should have. JD also has a locking bracket for the front of the tractor. There is a L shaped part of the FEL that fits over the front weight bar. The bracket fits over and locks the L shaped part of the FEL to the weight bar and prevents the FEL from falling off the tractor.

Make sure you get this from the dealer.

If you are going to have a box blade I would strongly recommend a hydraulic top link as well. I have only used my box blade for an hour or so but the top link was SOOOOO helpful.

Tranny's. The HST robs a couple PTO horsepower compared with the PowerReverser. The PowerReverser is very easy to run. I drive a manual tranny truck and I found myself reaching for the PowerReverser control stick while driving the truck the other day!

If your wife does not know how to drive a manual then the HST tranny may be the way to go. I don't find myself changing gears all that often. I do go back and forward all the time and the PowerReverser does that without needing to clutch. Having said that, since I'm used to driving a manual, I just clutch when putting the PowerReverser in reverse or forward just out of habit

I looked at the 4000, 5n05's and 5n10's tractors. I settled on the 4700 because it had the most bang for the buck. IF you ever need a backhoe the JD48 is the way to go. If you have a 5n05 or 5n10 tractor the backhoe lists for just a bit over $11,000. That is a bit pricy for me. The 5n05 tractors have less FEL power then the 460 from what I can see. JD seems to have powered them down. Thats what pushed me into the 4700 tractor.

Hope this helps...
Dan

gvw · Nov 9, 2000

Dan -= thanks for your input - one additonal question that has come up is the size of the alternator on the 4700 - I want to add some (probably 4 total) additional Hella 55 watt work lights front and rear for night time snow plowing - I'm concerned as to the stock alternator output - any comment. Also - what price did you get on your "goodies" - curious as to the $'s that I'm being quoted. Three local dealers are the same on the tractor and loader but go up/down from there on the rest of the toys.
G

dmccarty · Nov 9, 2000

I just remembered one thing I forgot on my previous post. I asked about telescoping links and was told the same thing by the dealer. They were not available. The maddening thing is that the manual SHOWS some telescoping links! If I remember correctly JD is supposed to come out with the links in the near future. But I could be misremembering this.

The tractor was 21,133 with Hydraulic toplink, third 3rd SCV, R1s, and tall folding ROPS. I think this price also had the off tractor power connecter or what ever it is called that allows the connection to the JD 48 backhoe.

The 460 FEL was 4,910 but that is a 4n1 bucket with a diverter value. I THINK my original price on the FEL minus the 4n1 was around 3,500 plus or minus.

The MX6 was 1,958 with a slip clutch and rubber shields. I think I paid a bit much on this one.

The JD 48 was 6,934.

From what I can tell from scanning TractorByNet and jplan I got a fair price. I HOPE I got a fair price!

I did compare prices with those Orange and Blue tractors and it seemed that the prices were comparable with Green. But the JD price/performance on the 4700 vs TC45 vs 4610 gave Green the checker flag. The TC45 was 19,800 with HST. But did not include the toplink, 3rd SCV, and other goodies. I think the other goodies added up to $1,000 or there abouts. Since HST robs PTO horsepower it is a negative for me not a positive. I was told non HST TC45, had an icky tranny since you had to clutch all the time. But that could have been the sales guy pushing me to the HST which he had in stock. In any case, the TC45 and Kubota 4610 had less HP than the 4700 and some other performance related issues. I think I might have gotten a Blue or Orange a little cheaper but I got more performance from Green for a little more Green.

Regarding the alternator I'm not sure of an answer. How many amps do the Hella's draw? I want to put some 2 rear and 2 foward lights on the 4700. JD was selling some worklights in the 55 watt range and I think there was a spare circuit that would handle this. I'll have to remember to look in the manual. If I don't say something on this by next week send me a reminder note.

We need more Green on this board. To many Orange Men! And a few Orange Women!

Hope this helps...
Dan

dmccarty · Nov 10, 2000

I'm looking at the 4700 manual and on page 68-69 they have a list of fuse positions. Position 10, 11, 12 are spare circuits. They are 10, 20, and 30 amps fuses.

The Work Light, Head Light, and Tail Lights are all on individual 20 amp circuits.

The only way I can see to mount the forward and rear facing work light would be to use U bolts or brackets that can wrap around the ROPS. But then you have a problem with the wires. The JD worklights I saw had the wires running through the bottom of the light but this looks like it would require drilling holes in the ROPS.

Now that I think about it. I don't have a work light on my tractor. At least that I can remember!

So there might already be a 20 amp circuit ready for the lights.

Hope this helps....
Dan McCarty

roysallis · Nov 10, 2000

Dan, your $ on the MX6 is not too bad I paid $2050 but this included chain guards instead of rubber. Did you drive the HST for comparison with the PowrReverser. I am thinking of getting the HST but if the PowrReverser is just as easy on shifting from forward/reverse I could save a few $. Also, I am used to the brake being on the right side. Using an HST would take some getting used to. HOw do you think the power of the 4700 compares with that of a 5210 (53hp gross/45hp PTO)?

dmccarty · Nov 10, 2000

The PowerReverser is pretty easy and very nice to have. If you are moving forward and want to go backwards, you just pull the PowerReverser Lever to its middle positions, i.e. neutral, wait for the tractor to stop, and then move the lever to reverse. No clutching is needed. But out of habit I clutch anyway!

It does not mater if you are in low, mid or high range nor any of the four gears. Reverse and forward work the same way. Very nice. I tried to do this in my truck the other day but my turn signal stalk does not move the same way as the PowerReverser lever!

I never drove an HST. I just was not interested in that type of transmission. It takes to much PTO horsepower for my taste. And since I'm driving a manual tranny truck shifting gears on a tractor just did not turn me off. As long as the tractor tranny shifted like my truck. I think some of the older tractor trannys required the tractor to be stopped to change gears. That I did NOT want. The PowerReverser seemed to be as close to an auto tranny as I could find.

I'm not sure I would notice the HP difference between the 4700 and 5210s. 48 vs 53 engine HP and 41.5 vs 45 PTO HP. However, the extra wieght on the 5210 sure would be handy for traction. That extra wieght caused me some extra thinking!

But the price of the backhoes for the 4700 vs the 5n10's outwieghed the extra wieght on the 5000 series tractors.

Hope this helps...
Dan

gvw · Nov 10, 2000

Dan your prices are right on for the loader, rottary cutter and hoe----I'm getting almost identical prices from two local dealers. Now if I can just find a cab that looks good on this rig - have looked at Curtis and Sims both of which are not the most beautiful but may have to give up on the visual impact and go for the functionality aspect. May have to settle for just a canopy to keep the rain off but would like the warmer cab in the snow.

dmccarty · Nov 14, 2000

What kind of pricing are you getting for the tractor?

You don't need a cab, just use an umbrella!

What are the prices on the cabs? What is the difference between the models? Do they require the removal of the ROPS? Are they a ROPS/FOPS?

I know NOTHING about the cabs so I'm curious.

Thanks....
Dan

gvw · Nov 14, 2000

Dan --- Tractor ( 4700-HST-R1- tires-tall folding ROPS- set up for backhoe - 110lb wheel weights- rear work lite) and 460 loader w/ high cap bucket for about $26,000. Kinda hard to figure exact # as I am getting several other "things".
As for the cab - go to www.curtiscab.com. Prices are shown on their web page. I would go with the umbrella concept if the mega infared heat option was available. It was -5 degrees at the house last night - plowing snow would have been a bit crisp. Luckily it didn't snow.
Garry

dmccarty · Nov 14, 2000

-5 degrees! YIKES! And I'm complaining about the temps getting down to the high 40's this weekend.

I think you need a cab!

Interesting prices on the cabs and canopies. I think a canopy would be a good thing for me next spring to keep the sun off. The cabs seemed like they left the ROPS attached but the site did mention that the cabs were NOT ROPS cabs.

Thanks for the info...
Dan

gvw · Nov 14, 2000

Dan - ROPS stays on the tractor as originaly installed - cab mounts right in front of. If it wasn't for the cold/snow issue - canopy would be in the menu. However, I will be using a rear mount snow eater with directional spout to perform snow removal - therfore the heated cab is looking real good!
Garry

Anonymous Poster · Feb 1, 2001

GVW: IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR AN AWSOME LOOKING CAB THAT LOOKS FACTORY, GIVE JO-DALE PERRY CORP. A CALL IN MORDEN MANITOBA, CANADA. THEIR # IS 1 204 822 9100 THE CAB THEY PRODUCE LOOKS LIKE IT CAME RIGHT OFF THE FACTORY ASSEMBLY LINE.

Anonymous Poster · Feb 1, 2001

Torch,

I agree. They are the best after-market cab I've seen... that definitely looks factory or "better than" factory.

gvw · Feb 2, 2001

Thanks for the info ---but - the Curtis cab is in and on - though I would like to see a picture of the other one that you referenced - do they have a web site?