4310 question

stvman · Aug 9, 2003

I read in one of the NH threads that Deere uses cast aluminum axles as opposed to cast iron. I called a local Deere dealer to ask if it was true he stated yes they are but it is a non issue when it comes to durability. What he could not answer was why? I am just curious to the benifit of aluminum usually you want to increase weight not decrease it. Am I missing something?? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Neophyte · Aug 10, 2003

Stvman,

Would you expect him to say it was an issue?

I'm not sure if it is an issue or not. I just know that if I was going to bottom out on a rock, I would rather have cast iron and not cast aluminum. My experience has always been that cast aluminum tends to break pretty easily, relative to cast iron.

Don't quote me on this but if I remember right, the left/right link arms are hinged on pins that are attached to cast aluminum as well.

It's not a big issue for me but it's definitely a consideration in my tractor purchase and I wish they would have stuck with cast iron. It would bring me that much closer to choosing JD.

Next time you go tractor browsing, bring a magnet with you. If it does not attract the magnet then it is a non-ferrous metal.

stvman · Aug 10, 2003

Neo, A magnet is exactly what I took last friday when I looked at a 4310. I found the front axle is cast iron but the back is mostly cast aluminum. I know through my experience cast iron is much tuffer than aluminum. What I do not understand though is that cast aluminum is more expensive than iron. Which leads me to believe Deere must have some reason for using it. With all the advancements in metallurgy they may have a excellent reason for doing so. I did not want to dismiss Deere as a choice without knowing the reason.

NIXON · Aug 10, 2003

possibly it's easier to cast and machine than cast iron ???
John

Docsknotinn · Aug 10, 2003

Or perhaps to tighter tolerances with better heat dissapation.

Neophyte · Aug 10, 2003

Stvman,

I don't think it is a reason to dismiss JD. However, its reasonable to be concerned about it and ask questions. If you ever get a valid reason why from JD, let us know.

Kyle_in_Tex · Aug 10, 2003

When I was buying, I was told by some that "weight is good" for tractors. It depends on what your doing. This is "old school" train of thought. This comes from the agricultural past of tractors where pulling is primary usage. If you are primarily mowing, using the FEL, or box blading, weight is not something to base any purchasing decision on. I can tell you that weight is only good when you need it and very bad when you don't. I've been stuck 3 times mowing around my pond when "the crust breaks" thru. My tires are currently ballasted with water and I am thinking of draining them. I always have an implement on the back to ballast my FEL.

As far as aluminum vs cast iron, an engineered alum structure can be designed to be lighter and yet stronger at the same time. The material costs are higher but they are offset by the machining cost usually. I looked at this situation when I bought and decided that it was the cast iron parts on the cheaper machines that looked less heavy duty. Looking at the cousin parts, the basic diameters and cross sections of the alum were much bigger which spreads out the energy it receives. Not looking to start any arguments here, but I decided if JD was going to put alum parts on one of its best sellers, surely they have used expensive cad/cam software to design the things....Kyle

Neophyte · Aug 10, 2003

Kyle,

I agree with most of what you said. However, I wouldn't assume that just because JD decided to go that way, it's a good idea.

They also decided to make the mid-PTO dependent on the rear-PTO and without an interlock, which was a bad idea. Most 4210/4310/4410 owners that I have talked to, and even some of the dealers, have said this was bad idea on JD's part.

By the way, just for the record, I don't own any particular color, I'm still looking and the 4310/4410 are still in the running.

Bob_S · Aug 10, 2003

Has there been any history on the use of cast aluminum on 4300s etc. or are the 4210/4310/4410s the first tractors to use it?

_RaT_ · Aug 10, 2003

There was a post a few months back, about June 6th or so from Iamgott. He had his aluminum axle housing snap where the sways attach. He included pictures for his JD 4300. It was not the entire housing, just a portion, the part where the sways tie in, probably not the ideal place to use aluminum. It certainly in terms of bulk was no larger and quite frankly, much smaller then the steel supports on my tractor where the sways tie in. Machining aluminum vs cast iron is very similar.

GreenMtnMan · Aug 10, 2003

It seems to me I have read more posts here and on other boards about cast iron axle assemblies breaking than aluminum ones. Of course there is probably more cast iron than alumininum in the field. I don't think you can conclude that cast aluminum is bad based on one reported problem that may or may not have been caused by the fact it is aluminum. Do some extensive searching and just see how many problems turn up. I'd guess you wouldn't find many, the one RAT mentioned is the only one I recall.

Neophyte · Aug 11, 2003

I looked at the pic of Iamgott's 4300 (see attachment). This is exactly the image I had in my mind when I noticed they used aluminum for this attachment point. If it was cast iron, I think it would have bent the linkage before breaking the attachment point. With that said, I don't know the complete story behind this and I'm sure this instance is rare at best.

In other words, it would not prevent me from purchasing a JD.

I saw a post about the front wheel snapping off of an axle on a NH TC35D. It's the only instance I ever heard of it on this forum. Like this problem, no one knows the entire situation and the instance was rare at best I'm sure.

_RaT_ · Aug 11, 2003

Thats the only one I have ever heard of as well. It just suprised me that cast aluminum was used, but hey, I don't know enough to make any kind of a judgement call and I think JD's reputation precedes itself.

Docsknotinn · Aug 11, 2003

Irrespectiove of any brand or use it has not been my experience that machineing cast Iron Vs any other metal is a similar process. I would prefer a combination of the two , for the houseing and bushings but thats a whole different strand. I personally feel that if we disect any brand we will have some small item to compare or debate. It really seems like a fairly moot point unless there are a significant number of documented failures.

_RaT_ · Aug 11, 2003

"It really seems like a fairly moot point unless there are a significant number of documented failures. "

I think that is what were trying to say. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif