4020 Series Specs

[timb]

Negative on the down pressure. Down pressure is a whole 'nother animal.

The weight or 'diving' action of the (plow) implement provides the downward movement. However - picture old Harry's 3-pt design-as viewed from the side. As the draft load changes - the pressure (compression) on the top link changes and the draft pull (tension) on the lower draft links changes. Some systems read from one point (JD tends to use the top link) and some read the other - but both to the same effect.

As far as chisel plows not needing draft - I guess anything 'drug' isn't on the hitch anyway - but what about the myriad of uses for a 'toolbar' (and various implements of destruction?). I always thought you'd be in draft control for that (in most cases) as well.

I guess I'm still a little flummoxed from the news. I wouldn't be any more confused if we had found out Deere wasn't including an industry standard 3-pt. hitch on the Twenty series. On a tractor the size of a 4000 Twenty - I would never have guessed they would cross out an entire genre of use. Might as well have dropped the gear transmission.

 

[cowboydoc]

What else would you use draft control for besides plowing tim?

 

[timb]

Richard - That's the prime use - but pretty much any unpowered primary (or some secondary) hitch mounted tillage implement that doesn't use gauge wheels would require and/or benefit from draft control, no? Cultivators, 3pt disks, subsoilers, middlebusters, small rippers, bed formers, etc.,.

Probably under some conditions even things like rear blades and boxblades.

A lot of that type of stuff is most common in 'giant size' handled by 8-tire articulateds but I do see a lot of niche farming developing in small speciality row crop / raised bed production type settings. Since we are way on the early end of where we're going - I wanted this tractor to be a true 'utility player' able to handle the widest range of duties possible. Sure, for some things it is just going to be too small for long term production use - but it could have been capable of "prototyping" a concept as we develop our farm and market.

If certain avenues work out better than others then I could see buying larger and/or more specialized equipment but for now I wanted to keep my options open. I could well be better served by multiple tractors (bought later) each best sized for a different range of duty - but the truth is - we would be less likely to try a test venture in a given direction if it took a significant "R&D" expenditure to even try.

 

[cowboydoc]

Tim,

I really wouldn't worry about anything but plowing using draft control. A cultivator, disc, etc. you are going to be much better off just using postion control on letting the implement all the down. A subsoiler I can see the need for but everything else I don't think you will really need draft control. I don't even have draft control on my 6415. It's an option but there just isn't anything I would use it for or even think of anything to use it for.

 

[timb]

Well, I've still got a couple of fingers and the odd pair of toes crossed hoping the dealer turns over the right rock and finds the 4710 I wanted. Just amazes me that Deere eliminated availability of something so simple and fundamental and that's been around longer than me!

Especially as it took a deliberate act to try to make it go away. It appears they kept 99% of the entire rear half of the 4000 Ten chassis. The ONLY thing on the core chassis I see changed is the rockshaft housing part #. At face value there appears to be no benefit to this change - the new series has identical lift specs to the 4000 Ten hitch and I have never read here of anyone having any trouble with their large-frame hitch/rockshaft. Except the new casting is apparently missing some port/lug/watchamacallit that the draft control linkage hooked into. Even the top link 'hinge' (mount bracket) is the same part # as before. What did it save - 18 cents worth of CNC time on a $25,000 tractor?Agggh.

Well, in a cup-half-empty ending to the day - I guess I'm still batting 1000 when a manufacturer announces 'new and improved'. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[cowboydoc]

I completely agree with you that I don't see why they would eliminate that as an option. Especially when I see so many guys on this site trying to plow ground. I do think they messed up somewhere in their marketing and analysis.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Timb, Great explanation of draft control. Apparently, Cowboydoc called it correct that not enough folks ordered the option and JD decided to drop it for the new series.
They must want people to move up to the 5X20 series if they want or need draft control.
OTOH, I would think a 58HP MFWD turbocharged machine could easily manage a 2 or 3 bottom plow. Just make sure you get R1's and some front weights.
What type of farming operation are you planning? If you really needed to do a bunch of plowing you could get an older big 2WD "ag" machine for a lot less money. Of course, I don't know your situation. But I understand your frustration if all it would have taken is the same casting with some tapped lugs or something to make it a possiblity...Kyle

 

[CVHoss]

Hey Muhammad.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( We have extensive info, photos and specs, but must wait for the July 1st release date to post it. )</font>

So, the 1st has come and gone. How about the goodies? Enquiring minds want to know. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Hoss

 

[JayC]

I've been wondering about the eHydro's on the new 4000 Twenties. Do they all have the same relief valve setting like New Holland has on their TC35,40, & 45? I remember reading in another thread in the NH forum that because the TC35, 40, & 45 share the same relief valve settings, the TC45 essentially pulls the same as the TC35. Do the Deere's share the same characteristic?

 

[TCowner]

Jay, That is an excellent question. There is no sense paying for all of the extra hp of the 4720 (its about $6000 more than the 4120) if the hydro relief setting limits you to the same effective drawbar horsepower of the 4120.

I currently have a NewHoland TC40DA (and a TC40D before that) and there are times when I push the loader into a large dirt pile that the tractor will just stop. The engine does not die it just stops. If I'm in low range in the turtle position (slowest) I can usually make it stall. It suggests that I am not using all of the available power. New Holland gets about $1500 to move up from the TC35 to the TC40 and another $1500 to move up to the TC45. We are probably wasting our money buying more power although I do prefer the 4 cylinder engine in the TC40 and 45.

I like Deere's new 20 series tractors and wouldn't rule out a return to John Deere. If I do return I probably would want the 4720 because you just can't have too much power. My next attachment is probably going to be a pto power brush chipper and they have a real appetite for horsepower.

But if all I am doing is burning more fuel, making more noise (the 4720 seemed louder than the 4320 I tested) and spending more money I will go with less horsepower and save the money. Of course if I get the brush chippper I should be able to use the extra pto horsepower.

One of our JD experts needs to get on this immediately.

 

[green4710]

My 4710 has the motion match on it. If i turn that on, then no matter what gear, like A range, i can push into a dirt pile, put the hydro pedal on the floor, and the tractor just starts spinning all the tires, no stalling at all. Would this be helpful if one was plowing? I would think the computer would just "gear" down the hydro while pulling. Im not sure how this correlates with the hydro relief valve, but I havent been able to get the wheels to stop spinning with the pedal to the floor. If motion match is on, the wheels will always spin, maybe really slow, but still spinning.

 

[JayC]

I just thought of one other thing that I have been wondering. Will Deere put the new PowerTech engine in the 110TLB? The 110 is currently 43hp and I don't think it would be too hard to put the PowerTech in there.

 

[JimMorrissey]

I got a price on 4320 the other day with a loader: $25,130 which is about 17-18% off list prices. My local dealer said that a 4120 was "just about $1,500 bucks less". He also said the 4320 would be worth more as a trade in the future......which I believe. -Nice machines.

-Jim

 

[Eyehelp]

I got a quote on the 4720 with the 400x loader for $27,700 before taxes. About a 20% discount. List would be $34.402.
I think I am ready to jump in.

 

[JimMorrissey]

Not any more....LOL

 

[Ole_Hickory]

You Doctors have all the money !!!!!!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[MSP15]

I can't help but notice that nobody has mentioned that JD went from a spur gear final drive to a planetary final drive. This is a big deal and something you see on bigger tractors like the 5000s & 6000s. It's much stronger and will hold up better over the long haul. I think the other CUTs out there are spur gear.

Also...green4710, I think you are referring to loadmatch, not motionmatch. Motionmatch is the button that controls the rollout on the hydro. Loadmatch prevents the tractor from stalling.

 

[timb]

That's not a new change for the 4000 Twenty Series. The large frame 4000 and 4000 Ten JD CUTs have always been planetary finals.

 

[green4710]

Oops thats it, sorry, knew it was one of those match's, haha!

 

[polaris]

Does anyone know if the skidsteer adapter fits the 430 loader? If so would you know the price?