30E powershuttle

6sunset6 · Oct 11, 2008

I am having some trouble with my 30 E. I don't use it very much any more but it does come in handy from time to time. TLB. I posted in Construction but no one seemed to have a clue. So I will try here. Two problems 1. Powershuttle spool got stuck Tapped it and it seemed to be ok for a while. I changed all the filters ( don't laugh please) in 1997. It only has 30 hrs since then 1079 total. 2. today way back in the woods ,of course ,it just stopped.
It won't idle but will run at high RPM. I managed to baby it back to the barn.
I have a note to myself that the next time I change the filters I need all new orings. All is on order. Plus I sent a transmission oil sample off to Blackstone to see if I have to change the transmission oil. So one question is do filters get plugged over time ? Does anyone think the idle problem is fuel filter?
I am confused by, no idle but runs at high rpm. Really low hrs on this machine just 28 years old.

6sunset6 · Oct 12, 2008

Update changed the fuel filter glass bowl on the bottom. Did not appear to have any water in it nor was it full of junk. Still not running at idle runs fine at 1000 rpm and above.
I think maybe injectors. The book says overhaul at 1000 hrs.
Although I have run 3 cyl diesels on 2 and it runs rough but runs till the third injector goes on line. This is different but maybe 2 are jammed up.
Have to pull muffler mounts and the lower windshields to get the shroud off.
Also a second problem when sitting for a while will turn over and start at full throttle. If I let it die then it does not want to turn over. New Bat connections are good, maybe starter solinoid .
Be a couple of weeks till I can get back to this. And of course since it does not run I cannot get it in the barn. Depressing.

crashz · Oct 14, 2008

I have no experience with masseys, but maybe I can help a little.

That old of a machine will certainly have dried up seals. If you have a leak somewhere in the fuel lines before the pump, you can sometimes get almost air bound unitl enough fuel flow slips past the air leak. Sounds strange, but I've had this happen on a diesel pick-up that was very hard to diagnose.

Have you tried any fuel additives for lubricity when running ULSD? The ULSD is tearing up the old rotary fuel pumps.

It couldn't hurt to have the injectors and pump bench tested by a diesel shop as well.

6sunset6 · Oct 14, 2008

I have been using PS in the white bottle . I rebuilt the lift pump in 97. It feels like the same problem but a little different. Then I had very low flow out of the lift pump. engine would not run at all. when I opened up the lift pump there was a tiny strand of copper wire in the check valve. When I put it all back together the stream out of the top bleeder on the injector was 10 feet. I was puzzled this time because it ran at all but I think it is the lift pump again. First low stream out of the lift pump and second it dribbles constant out of the lift pump, which kind of tells me something is holding a check valve open. or ate it away. I get a little paralyzed sometimes when I cannot figure it out . Last time there were no forums. This is good
Thanks.

6sunset6 · Oct 22, 2008

update before I dump 13 gal of transmission oil I got an oil analysis done by Blackstone. $22 1079 hours The book says change the oil at 1000 hrs.
Analysis said high in copper and lead from clutch wear. some sludge. They thought it was the original oil and reccommended changing. It is the original oil so I guess I am head for a 13 gal bath. Got all the filters actually one the other two are screens and all the o rings almost . one gasket to make and I think a couple of orings short. Hate to have stuff open and short orings.
Have not fixed the idle problem yet. I think the lift pump.

6sunset6 · Oct 23, 2008

hmm not too many people familiar with this model. Progress of sorts on my fuel issue. Perkins A 3.152 engine. Took out the lift pump . Since the shut off valve broke off at the bottom of the tank 10 years ago I just had a line to it intendeding to put a valve in later. Now is later . I can say with certainty there is no blockage in the tank. Still don't have a valve but a pencil works shoved up the fuel line. Back to the pump. Took it apart the screen was clean. The diaphram was delaminating no aparent holes but wrinkled and not right. I had a rebuild kit which was kind of only good for the diaphram cause the check valves are steaked in. So I changed the diaphram . Now sort of check valve squishy sounds when it pumps now. Good suction on the input side. Can feel it pulling down my thumb. Put it back in but I really want to get a valve on the tank line and among my 500 fitting there was nothing I could use .Unbelieveable. The pump input is a 5/16 reverse flare like a brake line. I only know because I had some pieces around.
Who has 5/16 tube fittings around? I hope this fixes the idle problem,

northernguy · Oct 23, 2008

I showed my boss this site as we both have tractors,mines a mitts his is a massey ,he read your problem and said its your return check valve.We are mechanics that work on big cats,and he is quite the fuel man.I'll try to get him to respond to you but for now check your return fuel line where it comes out of the pump and goes back to tank ,there should be a check valve there
pull it off and see if plugged up.Let us know.

MFRED · Oct 24, 2008

Sure sounds like you're on the right track. If you're unsure about the lift pump, I don't think a new one is crazy money, around $50. The shut off is about $8. It might not be worth trying to rig something up. If you haven't, put a new fuel filter on too. If you're not sure on the hydraulic oil, change it. The money in oil isn't worth the risk.

6sunset6 · Oct 24, 2008

Thanks. The check valves are internal to the fuel pump. I had the tank out once and did not see anything in the lines. this is only a 3 cylinder Perkins.
I am going to get a new fuel pump. What is making the diaphram go bad?
This is the second one I have seen like this. Takes about 10 years.
Once I get the fuel issue fixed I will change the transmission oil.

6sunset6 · Oct 28, 2008

Just ordered the lift pump 1998 was $75 today $120 plus shipping.
Every 10 years should be $400 by time I am gone. Scary

northernguy · Oct 28, 2008

My fuel guy says your problem for your no idle ,but ok at hi idle is the return
fuel check valve,in your fuel pump ,not your lift pump,what happens is it builds up to much internal fuel pressure in the pump and lifts the vanes in the pump,remove the return fuel line at the pump and the return check is right there,its simple, check it out ,he has never steered me wrong before.

6sunset6 · Oct 29, 2008

Now I got it getting to old for this stuff. I missed the word return. Will check

6sunset6 · Oct 30, 2008

I put in a new lift pump, bat was dead so that was that . The lift pump is on the other side of the engine from all the injector stuff. My arms are not that long and my wife hates the smell off diesel so I use the bat, Thats why its dead. This is a CAV rotary injection pump. The extra fuel passes through the pump to lubricate it and then returns. I pulled off the return line and fitting on the the pump is just an adapter . no check , just a fed through hole.
Charging the bat, then do a good bleed and see what happens.
BTW The place I bought the lift pump from told me some guys replace them every two years. If thats so they pought to be a lot cheaper than they are,
$75 in 98 and $120 2 days ago, for a little bitty thing that looks like it came out of a ford flathead.

6sunset6 · Nov 1, 2008

Nuts wrote this whole thing leaned on the keyboard and it went away.
Starting again. found a lift pump on the net for $55. Nuts. wonder if the local autoparts guy could get one , next time. Installed it plus a shut off valve which I never had, changed the fuel filter. Bled the Perkins, lift pump to the top of the injector , then crank at full throttle with injector pressure line loose at the injectors. Problem no cranking amps. I do have a battery load tester and the battery seems to be bad. It is only a month old. Sears DieHard. I could jump it but I would rather take the thing back to Sears and let them see whats up. Stay tuned. It better start soon, I am getting frustrated and winter is coming and its outside.

6sunset6 · Nov 4, 2008

The New BAT is good. It seems like the cylinders or something is filling up with liquid and locking up. If I let it rest for a few days it will crank for 10 sec and then lock up. IF I try to crank it again right away it won't turn over at all ,thats why I though the battery was not holding a charge. The lines to 2 injectors are loose. Wierd. ?????

I was just thinking back to the return line. If it was plugged would the injection pump lock up and keep the engine from turning over.? Should start
What would cause the engine to lock up?

6sunset6 · Nov 5, 2008

northernguy said:
I showed my boss this site as we both have tractors,mines a mitts his is a massey ,he read your problem and said its your return check valve.We are mechanics that work on big cats,and he is quite the fuel man.I'll try to get him to respond to you but for now check your return fuel line where it comes out of the pump and goes back to tank ,there should be a check valve there
pull it off and see if plugged up.Let us know.

I keep coming back to your check valve. I think I found it at least in the parts book. Not on the pump but on the other side of the filter where the return line goes back to the tank. Friday or SAT I will check it out.

6sunset6 · Nov 10, 2008

errrrr Still working on it. bleed every thing out cannot find check valve.
Still does the same thing. Cranks over for 10 sec and then locks up.
Next step pull shroud over the engine and look harder for plugged return line but I pulled off the return line at the filter and it still locked up.
I am starting to think plugged injectors , although I had the pressure lines loose on 2 of the 3 cylinder. So when the shroud is off I will pull off the injector lines and see if it cranks. I am startint to think the injector pump broke some how. Anyway I will makle one more pass myself and then hire a mechanic. I got the name of a guy who is highly reccomended.

What is the difference between direct and indirect injectors

6sunset6 · Nov 12, 2008

No work on the machine but found out the difference between indirect and direct injection. Direct squirts right into the combustion chamber. No glow plugs required . That's this 3.152 Perkins. I wonder why it always started instantly even on cold weather. Indirect which is the design of choice now uses shaped combustion chamber almost 2 chambers. Requires glow plugs to start but is much more effiicent in converting fuel to work.
One more day on the Perkins and I am going to hire a mechanic.

6sunset6 · Nov 24, 2008

My machine is running A lot of air in the lines combined with a weak battery (new). The mechanic had a few tricks . The big one was pulling off the secondary air filter , it's a can that sticks up in the air , and sticking a gas soaked rag in the hole. Engine kind of sputtered along , enough for him to know there was nothing broken inside. We bled the injector again, ran it on the gas rag a couple times more. then cracked an injector line up by the injector ran it on gas once more and then the other two cylinders started kicking. Closed up the first injector and it ran fine. Now it will take a week to get all the sheet metal back on. But now it is inside.
Mechanic said get a bigger battery type 30 he said. Also said the batt cable was too small. Took less than an hour. Best $85 I ever spent.