3 way switch mental breakdown

[mx842]

I'm putting lights and fans in my pole barn shop and I have 4 lights and 4 fans. I want to have 2 lights and 2 fans in the front half and 2 lights and two fans in the back part. I also wanted to have them so I can cut them on and off in both the front and back wall. I ran all my wires and marked each one on both ends where they ran to. It was so hot for a couple days that I had to stop and work on something else where I could at least have a fan blowing some nice 105 degree air on me. I had run most of the wire but when I started back on this project I realized I had screwed up. I ran romex all through the ceiling and I now remember that I'm not putting a ceiling in but just letting the truss system stay exposed and then spray insulation on the roof and then paint it all white. Well when I took all the wires out to put them in conduit I think I got some of the legs transposed or mixed up if you will. I made up all the boxes at the lights and fans but I don't know how to check then to see what I have and I don't want to make them hot off my extension core I have running to the shop especially as hot as it is because I don't want to burn up my cord and lose my fans.:laughing:

Is there a way to test the circuits to see what you have without throwing the juice to them. And please don't tell me to call a professional I don't have the money for that of I would have already done that.

 

[dex3361]

Do you have an ohm meter? Hook up all the bare grounds together then pick one wire to identify and hook it to the bundle of bare grounds. Go to the other end and put one lead of your ohm meter on any of the bare grounds and take the other ohm meter lead and touch each wire till you get a low resistance reading. You have found both ends of one wire(the other end is the tied to all of the bare grounds). Repeat the process till they are all sorted out.

 

[murphy1244]

You will have two circuts with two 3 way switches per side. on the switch there is one terminal on one side and two terminals on the other. Power in on the one terminal. On two terminals get connected to each other then take the other swich from across the room and hook up to your load in series. And bundle your commons.

 

[mx842]

Do you have an ohm meter? Hook up all the bare grounds together then pick one wire to identify and hook it to the bundle of bare grounds. Go to the other end and put one lead of your ohm meter on any of the bare grounds and take the other ohm meter lead and touch each wire till you get a low resistance reading. You have found both ends of one wire(the other end is the tied to all of the bare grounds). Repeat the process till they are all sorted out.

I thought about trying that before I hooked up all the switches. It was so hot that day I went inside before doing it and when I came out the next morning the next thing I knew all the switches were wired. Would they need to be unhooked from the switches to ohm them out? It seems to me they would.

 

[grsthegreat]

For a onetime thing, i agree with the ohm meter method. time consuming but works well.

Since I'm an electrician, i have a signal toner that sends a pulse signal thru any wire i clip it to, then a hand held receiver can tell me what wire is what. Not worth buying something like this for 1 job though.

 

[dex3361]

For a onetime thing, i agree with the ohm meter method. time consuming but works well.

Since I'm an electrician, i have a signal toner that sends a pulse signal thru any wire i clip it to, then a hand held receiver can tell me what wire is what. Not worth buying something like this for 1 job though.

I have a tracer as well and they work well.!

 

[dex3361]

I thought about trying that before I hooked up all the switches. It was so hot that day I went inside before doing it and when I came out the next morning the next thing I knew all the switches were wired. Would they need to be unhooked from the switches to ohm them out? It seems to me they would.

I would take the wires loose and use masking tape to tag and write on the wires or you might get confused.

 

[mx842]

For a onetime thing, i agree with the ohm meter method. time consuming but works well.

Since I'm an electrician, i have a signal toner that sends a pulse signal thru any wire i clip it to, then a hand held receiver can tell me what wire is what. Not worth buying something like this for 1 job though.

I had one of those years ago come to think of it but someone borrowed it one day and I never got it back. If I use an ohm meter do the switches need to be removed first?

 

[murphy1244]

I had one of those years ago come to think of it but someone borrowed it one day and I never got it back. If I use an ohm meter do the switches need to be removed first?

This is why I always use colored wire.

 

[grsthegreat]

I had one of those years ago come to think of it but someone borrowed it one day and I never got it back. If I use an ohm meter do the switches need to be removed first?

it would be best to disconnect everything then ohm out the wires and mark them as you find what is what. Im an electrician, and when we wire houses or commercial units, we mark a name on every wire run that we install as to where it runs and terminates. You can imagine the mess i would have in a 8,000 SF house having runanywheres from 5,000 - 8,000 feet of romex and not labeling the runs.

 

[mx842]

it would be best to disconnect everything then ohm out the wires and mark them as you find what is what. Im an electrician, and when we wire houses or commercial units, we mark a name on every wire run that we install as to where it runs and terminates. You can imagine the mess i would have in a 8,000 SF house having runanywheres from 5,000 - 8,000 feet of romex and not labeling the runs.

Well I had all the runs labeled but when I took it all out so I could install it in conduit some of the ends got cut off with the marks on them. It was so hot that day that I almost passed out a couple times while I was working in the ceiling. Where I screwed up was one day it was a little cooler and I got ahead of myself and ran the wires first not thinking about leaving the ceiling open and it needing to be in conduit. When I took them back down is when all the screwing went on.:confused3:

It's supposed to be over 100 today but hopefully I wont have to be in the ceiling too much and can get this sorted out on the ground where it's a little cooler.

 

[boggen]

i do not wire stuff that often, so i never remember, and always end up at below link. and then click on the diagrams for larger images.
Installing A 3-way Switch With Wiring Diagrams - The Home Improvement Web Directory

for me i end up having multi places were "power" from the panel comes into a circuit. for lights or fans or other. and above diagrams end up being a quick cheat sheet for me.

for the bozo in me, i did it couple times, and forgot to flip a 3 way switch, to double check the red or black wire for the other side 3 way switch before. *doh*

==============
there was a couple times when meter i had was dead / broken. and made sure the wires in the panel were removed all 3 wires (hot *black*, neutral*white*, bare or green *ground*) just to make sure there was no electricity gong through the wires. then took a 9V battery or like and some ductape, and then used a light from a flash light, or spare cheap light for trailer brake lights. to check what was what. i have taken a old toy, that required 9v battery, and just destroyed the toy, just so i could have the little "plug" that connects to a 9v battery, and a couple wires coming off of the plug.

though prefer the multi meter. (to check 12v DC or 110v AC, along with OHMs (resistance). and preferably one with alligator clips. vs little pins on the ends. makes it easier to just poke around to ends of wires to find what is what.

 

[mx842]

i do not wire stuff that often, so i never remember, and always end up at below link. and then click on the diagrams for larger images.
Installing A 3-way Switch With Wiring Diagrams - The Home Improvement Web Directory

for me i end up having multi places were "power" from the panel comes into a circuit. for lights or fans or other. and above diagrams end up being a quick cheat sheet for me.

for the bozo in me, i did it couple times, and forgot to flip a 3 way switch, to double check the red or black wire for the other side 3 way switch before. *doh*

==============
there was a couple times when meter i had was dead / broken. and made sure the wires in the panel were removed all 3 wires (hot *black*, neutral*white*, bare or green *ground*) just to make sure there was no electricity gong through the wires. then took a 9V battery or like and some ductape, and then used a light from a flash light, or spare cheap light for trailer brake lights. to check what was what. i have taken a old toy, that required 9v battery, and just destroyed the toy, just so i could have the little "plug" that connects to a 9v battery, and a couple wires coming off of the plug.

though prefer the multi meter. (to check 12v DC or 110v AC, along with OHMs (resistance). and preferably one with alligator clips. vs little pins on the ends. makes it easier to just poke around to ends of wires to find what is what.

I was thinking about trying something like what you were talking about using a regular car battery and jumpers to light up a test light on the other end but once I got going I just ohmed out the wires to see what went where. Then I started at one switch and worked my way all the way to the other side until I had all 8 switches wired. I did find several places where I had the wiring wrong at the fixtures so I figured I would just start at square one and work my way all the way through.

I already had a drawing and it was basically the same ones as you posted in that link. I used the option # 7 as I thought it would use less wire but now I'm not sure. I know doing it using that drawing it was really easy to get mixed up if you forgot which direction you were working from. My brain is pretty much used up anyway and as hot as it has been it's a wonder I could even find my way to the shop.:laughing:

 

[radioman]

try this... you mentioned you put wire in conduit. is it metal type? good !! then at one end use vise grips and clamp wire to conduit or rig a pigtail to do that touching wire you want to test. with meter in ohms setting use metal conduit on other end with one probe and touch one of 4 wires you got till you get a closed reading. that the one you grounded on other end. repeat for each wire- should only take 4 tries or so after marking each one .

question - why wasnt the wire color coded? the ground wire should be green or bare and rest - well -you know..

good luck

 

[mx842]

try this... you mentioned you put wire in conduit. is it metal type? good !! then at one end use vise grips and clamp wire to conduit or rig a pigtail to do that touching wire you want to test. with meter in ohms setting use metal conduit on other end with one probe and touch one of 4 wires you got till you get a closed reading. that the one you grounded on other end. repeat for each wire- should only take 4 tries or so after marking each one .

question - why wasnt the wire color coded? the ground wire should be green or bare and rest - well -you know..

good luck

Well they are but the problem was that there were so many separate legs that went everywhere. There were about 14 different wires bundles, 8 switches with over 25 connection points, 27 if you counted the connections in the panel box. 1 misplaced wire anywhere and something wont work. I think I have it sorted out now and i'll find out how it went tomorrow afternoon.