3 point problems on 851

[851 roger]

I have a 1960 or close to it Ford 851 Power Master. I think it might be time for a new tractor, I'm so tired of messing with one!!!!
The 3 point lift got to where it would not go up and if it did as soon as it hit the top it would go all the way down. I just pulled the little dip stick out to see if it still had fluid (no signs of any leaks) and it has fluid allright, blum to the top of the stick and it is milkey white!!! I replaced all the fluids this winter and filled to the middle of the cross hatching on the stick.... SO WHAT IS GOING ON NOW????? Help please!!

 

[Soundguy]

milky white is water emulsion usually ( if air / foam.. entrainment.. it will settle out when off.

most peole simply drain oil and refill with no flushing.

draining a wet sump and refilling with oil leaves enough water in the sump to foul the new oil unless you run her 8hrs a day 5 days a week to get her nice and hot, often, and keep the moisture flashed off.

that's why i suggest a flush of part atf, diesel, and rubbing alcohol to dewater a sump.

now.

a few questions.

is the cork friction disc in place and have tension? ie.. if you lift the 3pt controal and the lift comes up.. you say it sometimes drops.. does the handle drop as well? if so.. that's a friction disc issue.

you can correct that from the outside partially disassembling the quadrant and friction plate. etc.

the milky oil.. needs to be flushed.

probably has a lil gunk and solid /thick emulsion flowing in the system as well. i can EASILLY see that sticking an unloader valve.

i'd dump in a gallon of diesel.. run her around the yard. exercise the lift a few times. run her 10-15 minutes.

then drain. then refill with 1g diesel, 2 quarts atf, and 4 pints of 90% rubbing alcohol. start back up and run around the yard a few laps.. exercise the lift.. then drain.. let drip fro 5 minutes. plug up and refill with utf meeting M2134 spec. now judge what she does.

if still acting up but not the quad lever. get a 15$ top cover kit and a 25$ fo-20 manual and pop the top cover off.. and repalce the cam pin.. orings.. and lift piston washer and oring.. then adjust the lift using the alternate instructions not using the nuday tools.

 

[851 roger]

No the handle stays up. I can however pull the draft lever up straight and it will come up as long as I hold it there.
Now the other question is, do you suppose I can pour all that fluid along my fence row to kill the weeds??? If not I'll just dig a big hole!! I live kinda out in the country.

 

[Soundguy]

eco terrorism?

sorry.. can't help ya any further if you are gonna do that.

there are plenty of legal recycling options available for that waste oil.

 

[851 roger]

Just kidding about that!! I'll take it to the local O'rilys auto store they have a big tank for that stuff.
Thanks for the info, I'll give it a go this weekend.

 

[Soundguy]

it's pretty straight forward repair on these oldies.

do it right once and you will likely never be into the hyds agian.. at least not for these issues.. etc.

 

[851 roger]

On the hyd oil you mentioned it needs to meet M2134 spec.. The people at my local TS store didn't seem to know about that so I purchased Traveller ISO 46 hydraulic oil. Is that going to work? I'm not going to open it untill I know!!!

 

[Soundguy]

nope.. that's essentially jack oil.

M2C134 is a ford/NH spec.

tsc's UTF brands usually mee that spec.. it will be listed on the side of the jug.

I'd call that store manager and let them know it's time to hire some people that can read.. or train the ones they already have.

do NOT use that iso oil in your machine..

 

[851 roger]

Thank you, I'll go exchange it today.

 

[851 roger]

Ok here is the latest info: I exchange the hydraulic oil for some hydraulic fluid, put it in and bingo, half lift with the draft bar straight forward, and then it drifts up and down about 1", if I push the draft bar straight up it lifts all the way up, but only if I hold it there. Now on the dip stick level it is about 3" above the full mark.
Could there be another problem I don't know about? After I drained all the old fluid out the dip stick showed nothing. Could something be blocked or pluged up ?
I really need to get this done, I need to move some dirt and do some plowing. Thanks everyone!!!

 

[Soundguy]

that pretty much proves that it needs a linkage adjustment and almost certaintly the cam follower pin repalced.. and MAYBEE attention to cam the follower rides if it is worn excessively.

refer to t he alternate adjustment instructions inthe service manul that do not use the nuday tools.

 

[851 roger]

Ok it' Monday and I just went out to check the hydraulic fluid level in the tractor. As I had stated bvefore the level was 3" above the full mark and it is still there and looks somewhat clear this time. I'm looking for a service manual before I tear it apart. Anymore ideas would be good.
Thanks

 

[Soundguy]

pull the drain a hair and see if a bunch of water comes out ...

 

[851 roger]

Before I do that, where would water come from???
I just put fluid in it Sunday, the raidator is not low, I'm kinda stumped, maybe confused. Could you explain the reason for the action please?? THANK YOU

 

[jimmysisson]

Before I do that, where would water come from??? Could you explain the reason for the action please??

I think SG is wondering if you got all the old water/junk out before the refill. In other words, old water, not new.
Jim

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. and not sure about the radiator comment.. not much to do with the hyds system.. unless you are indicating you think you have a coollant issue as well??

 

[GolfAddict]

But why does the fluid level keep rising? It was way over full, seems like water got in. Then, he drained and refilled to the proper level, and now it's rising way up again. Why does the fluid level keep increasing?

Don't know if it has anything to do with the symptoms he's experiencing, but I think that's what he's wondering...

 

[Soundguy]

that's the reason I asked him to see if it was water.

if it's not water and his hyd level is rising.. he's making oil.

only a couple reasons for hte hyds to be making oil.. most common reason for the hyds to make oil is a perforated suction tube in the transmission... and thus the tranny will be sucked dry, while the hyds becomes overfull.

wanted to rule out water first.

 

[851 roger]

OK so now after reading the comments, I think maybe I should pull the fill plug from the transmission and take a look inside, before I pull anymore plugs. The fluid on the hyd dipstick look pretty clear, however I'm not ruleing out water just yet!! If the hyd level is 3" above the full mark, could that affect the lift???

 

[Soundguy]

high hyd fluid level will not effect the lift. the lift sump has room for plenty more oil in there in case you need to run some external SA hy cyls. I know I had to add a couple gallons of oil to run ford 711 loaders.. 1g just to make up the hoses.. and the other gallon for the lift.. so my sump is 1g 'over full' any time the laoder is relaxed.


check the oil level side plug on the tranny.. can't tell much looking down in the fill hole.

and pull the hyds plug a hair to see if water has settled and comes out.