2910 Steering problem

[Alan L.]

I'm sure Kubota will tell you that you are the first to have the problem just like I am (and others). Next Tuesday a Kubota field service tech is meeting my tractor (2710) at my dealer. They said the will try to duplicate the problem and then figure out what the problem is.

It hasn't been as hot as when the serious problem came up, but after mowing an hour I can put it in high range and drive around and it starts acting up. I'll post the results.

Alan L., TX

 

[ronjhall]

Cut the lawn again yesterday. Had no problems with steering./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Temperature was low 70's and light rain./w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif Checked temperature of tractor at several different places. Found it was about 180 degrees. Dealer is still waiting for<font color=orange> Kubota</font color=orange> to setup a visit. I'm disappointed with Alan L. not getting his tractor repaired. When dealer had my tractor last year trying to make problem show up he only ran engine at 2000 rpm to cut his lawn. I don't think this will get tractor or oil hot enough to make problem happen. I don't remember the temperature that day. I live about 5 miles from dealer. He drives by my place every day going to and from his home. Hope to get him to stop by one day when tractor is having steering problem.

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

I don't know if this will help much, but I remember reading about a test of mile marker hydraulic winches. They run off the power steering pump on 4x4's. They tested against the electric winches, pulling a full sized 4x4 up a steep hill. They reported a problem with the power steering pump overheating and burning the power steering fluid. Does your fluid smell/look burned? The fix they used was to install a power steering cooler off a police car. Again, I don't know if this helps, but if overheating is the problem, you've gotta find a way to cool it. Maybe you could figure out a way to test by getting the steering to act up and then cooling the fluid to see if that helps.

SHF

 

[ronjhall]

Steve
Thanks for the response. The power steering pump is on the same suction line as the main hydraulic pump. Since all the oil is drawn from the same place it would be hard to add a cooler to the power steering only. I don't know what the temperature limit is for Kubota Super UDT. But I think it is well above 200 degrees. The oil does not smell or look burnt. It is almost as clear as what comes out of a new container. My tractor is still under warranty for another year. I hope somebody finds a fix before that time is up

 

[Alan L.]

I picked up my tractor today. Since it was there already I had them change the engine oil and filter. When I went to pay they said there was no charge. The dealer ate the cost of it with no help from Kubota.

They told me the hottest my hydraulic fluid got to as 122 or 125 degrees.

I mowed about an hour tonight, but the temp was below 80 and I had no problems. When it gets hot (a pretty good bet here in Texas) it will act up, and I might have to mow half the county while waiting for someone to come witness the steering problem.

One of 2 things will happen. Kubota will fix the tractor and I will be a Kubota customer for the next 30 years, or I will trade for a JD4200. Might even upgrade to a 4300.

Alan L., TX

 

[ronjhall]

Alan:
Talked to the dealer yesterday. I had printed out 22 pages of posts on the power steering problem posted here on Tractorbynet. He faxed them to <font color=orange>Kubota</font color=orange> at their request. It sounds like they are interested in solving the problem. They have been talking to <font color=orange>Kubota</font color=orange> engineers in California. I'm hoping a resolution is found soon. Next week temperatures are supposed to be in the 80 again. Dealer and I are going to arrange my cutting lawn with his trip home. Hopefully steering acts up.
We discussed temperature. The highest temp I have been able to get so far is 190 degrees. This is at a fitting. I would guess that the oil temp is hotter than that. It bothers me when we are complaining about a heat problem that dealer or <font color=orange> Kubota</font color=orange> will run a test and not get oil and tractor hot enough to get anywhere near the temperatures that we get when using tractor under normal conditions. If this is how <font color=orange> Kubota </font color=orange> ran the test. The Feild Sevice Rep. should find himself setting in front of the District Manager explaining why the test was not properly run to make problem appear. The 120-degree temperature is what the WSM calls for when setting the hydraulic system.
I'm in the Field Service business. One of the most rewarding things about solving a problem is listening to what the customer is saying and using it to solve a problem. I have been documenting most of what I have found with my tractor here on Tractorbynet. I couldn't remember if my tractor ever had a problem at temperatures below 80 degrees. It had, but that was before oil had been changed at 50 hours. This information was in one of my post.
I don't plan on changing tractors to solve this problem. But I do find that <font color=orange> Kubota </font color=orange> does not appear to have as good away of solving customer relation problems as some of the other brands. My dealer is very concerned about solving this problem.

 

[glennmac]

As a lawyer, I tend not to participate in any threads involving legal issues because, quite frankly, I go tractoring and surf the net to escape from my daily grind. Plus, I don't want to pestered with legal questions.

However, I would like to emphasize that is is important to document your problems in writing while you are having them before the warranty period expires. Letters to your dealer or Kubota can serve that purpose. So can posts on this forum. Credibility is important when documenting. You should accurately describe the problem, not exaggerate, and certainly not lie. If you are not believed, you probably will be ignored. The fact that this forum provides credible reports of the same problem from other owners of the same product should enhance the credibility of the complaining owner and cause the manufacturer to take the issue more seriously.

Good tactic, ronjhall.

 

[MReeter]

Ron,Alan, We previously owned a B2150 that had a hydraulic fluid cap. of about 5 gallons.Our B2710 trans. will hold 3.7 gallon.I feel like this difference in volume of fluid plus the lack of adequate cooling creates this problem in hot conditions.There is another thread about "smelling" hydro. fluid,I've smelled the fluid in our 2710 many times when the tractor has been working for a while,even though the engine temp.is just fine.I worked our 2150 very hard for close to 700 hours,and the only time I smelled the hydro. fluid is when I serviced the trans. and changed the oils.I have never experienced the steering problem that you guys have,so I really have nothing to complain about,but I can just "tell" by the "smell" that the trans oil is not as cool as it should be.

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>The highest temp I have been able to get so far is 190 degrees. This is at a fitting</font color=blue>

<font color=blue>The 120-degree temperature is what the WSM calls for when setting the hydraulic system.</font color=blue>

Ron, was that 190 degrees on a hydraulic oil fitting, or are you talking about engine temperature? As you said, my WSM calls for temperature of 104 to 122 for checking the relief valve, but I've never known whether that was intended to be maximum oil temperature, or just thoroughly warmed up to test the relief valve. A couple of times, after running the tractor awhile, I've put a temperature probe into the hydraulic dipstick hole and my hydraulic oil has gotten up to about 132-134 degrees in the tank; don't know what it might have been in other parts of the system.

Bird

 

[Von]

Maybe all that is needed is a better oil cooler than the tubes that are there now. The B8200 that I just sold had a small cooler that was more like a radiator. I would think that a good aftermarket oil cooler would make a big change in oil temp. I don't know if the problem is caused by excess oil heat or not, but it would be worth a shot for those living in warmer areas.

 

[ronjhall]

Bird:
That’s the temperature at inlet fitting to FEL valve. I have a Pyrometer to check these temperatures. The engine was about 150-degrees at the valve cover. I need to check the actual temperature of the oil in the transmission. 200-degree oil should not cause these problems. But keeping temperature lower will help. Is that the temperature now that you are using Amsoil? I remember you giving some temperature readings when you were hooking up your Tip & Tilt. Have you ever checked the temperature after running tractor for several hours?

 

[Bird]

Ron, the only times I've thought to check the temperature was after running it an hour or so at PTO speed (tilling instead of mowing). I'll have to try to remember and do that the next time I mow.

Bird

 

[hayden]

Alan,

I share your frustration, but my experience comes from owning a JD garden tractor. I won't bore you with all the details other than to say my tractor's oil pressure comes and goes (to zero) for the first few minutes of operation unless I overfill the crankcase by 1/4 qt or so. It also blows clouds of smoke when I start it after it's been sitting for more than a week or so. The smoke smells like antifreeze (it's liquid cooled) and the coolant level drops ever so slowly. It's been like this from day one.

Without dwelling on the tractor's problem, which I've concluded I just need to live with, I can say I got completely and totally unsatisfactory support from JD and the dealer network. The problem hasn't been fixed, and everyone proclaims it to not exist. One factory rep went so far as to tell me I should remove the oil pressure warning light.

As you might guess, I'll never buy a JD again. The tractor may be green on that side of the fence, but the grass isn't.

Peter

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

Okay, time for a dumb question. Is it possible to add an auxilliary hydro return tank to increase the capacity of the system? Hydro thats running 40 degrees hotter than the engine just doesn't sound right. An auxilliary tank such as those from Northern would increase the quantity of fluid, leaving more time for it to cool before it has to go back to the pump. I remeember seeing a graph oof some test on automatic transmissions. Basically, an automatic transmission that is running at minimum temperature will last a long time, one that is run hot (if I recall right, hot was around 260 degrees) will not last more than a few thousand miles. Every 10 degrees in rise takes a big chunk of life off the trans. I would be concerned that this excessive heat will destroy seals, etc in the front end or pump.

Keep us posted on Kubota's position on this one.

SHF

 

[frank_f15]

RON: seems to me that if this was a wide spread problem, kubots would know about it. has to be a lot of tractors similar to yours , working in much hotter conditions than u are. i would think it just might be your machine. but again i don't know. sorry i can't be more helpful. but i wish u luck and keep after them.