2210 real axle seal

cford36 · Nov 3, 2015

Anyone have to replace a rear axle seal on a 2210? I took it into my dealer to have it replaced and was told its a 2 and a half hour job. (Told this 2 times, the second time after they had determined what needed to be replaced and had the parts on order) Only to get a call a week later telling me its now a 20 hour job and will be over $1600. Pretty big jump from about $250 to now $1600. Needless to say I am not having them do it. Another dealer just quoted me 5.5 hours.

Anyone have an idea of how long this actually takes???

kennyd · Nov 3, 2015

Don't know what "book" time is, but here is the parts involved:

REAR AXLE AND FINAL DRIVE
Cart key PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
1 LVA801043 Gear Kit 1 FINAL GEAR
2 LVU800542 Bearing 2
3 M802255 Pin 2
4 19M7786 Bolt 14 M10 X 30
5 LVU800869 Housing 1 LH
LVU800870 Housing 1 RH
6 CH13489 Snap Ring 2
7 LVU800965 Bushing 2
8 12M7066 Lock Washer 2 10 mm
9 14M7274 Nut 2 M10
Cart key PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
10 CH13506 Ball Bearing 2
11 40M7043 Snap Ring 2
12 CH13163 Seal 2
13 LVU800867 Axle 1 LH
LVU800868 Axle 1 RH
.. TY24344 Liquid Gasket 1

ovrszd · Nov 3, 2015

I don't. But, looking at mine, it appears the outer axle seal is an internal seal. Don't see any seal flange or edge sticking out of the case. If it is installed from the inside that would explain the high labor cost.

Looks like the outer axle housing would have to be removed from the main transaxle case. To do that the case has to be unbolted from the chassis because a frame mount is built on that outer housing. Could probably cheat and support the transaxle somehow and remove the housing. But don't know that for sure.

Again, if it's an internal seal and it can be replaced without removing the transaxle I'd say your last quote is logical. Even with removing the transaxle it's not a 20 hour job.

Lastly, I'd be concerned why the seal started leaking?? Did you wrap something around the axle shaft and take out the seal by using it that way?? If not, then I'd suspect a bearing issue. As long as the bearings are good and no foreign object has intruded on the seal there is no reason for it to start leaking.

I'm very curious how this ends. Please post any progress.

ovrszd · Nov 3, 2015

I was typing the same time as Kenny so didn't see his diagram until I had posted.

If you look closely at the diagram it's clear that the seal comes out, rather than going in to remove as I suggested. But look still closer and you'll see that the short axle shaft is held in the outer case by snap rings. So the outer housing has to be removed from the transaxle. Then remove the inner snap ring and the axle shaft with wheel flange will come out of the housing. This allows the seal to then be removed and replaced.

I'm still thinking your quote of 5 hours is pretty fair.

cford36 · Nov 3, 2015

I got some stabilizing fabric threads wrapped around it. After that is when it started. More a seep than a leak. Just makes a mess over time.

All have agreed that you have to drop the transmission, remove the ROPS and fender. (That included the guy telling me a 2.5 hour job) So it is a project, but this can't be the first one a dealer has done so there should be some shop time guidelines for them to estimate. So now I have been told 2.5 hours 2x and 20 hours by the same dealer and 5.5 hours by another dealer. Both are Zahm and Matson just different locations. Something is up with the 20 hour estimate. I told them what to replace and they still put $200 in shop time to make sure I was right before they ordered the parts. So now its been there almost a month and I am no closer to getting it fixed.

ovrszd · Nov 3, 2015

Yeah, they charged you to diagnose.

Sounds to me like you'd be better off to pay them, then haul your machine to the other dealer for the 5.5 hr repair. Just want to make sure he'll stand by that estimate.

cford36 · Nov 3, 2015

Well right now they agreed just to charge a $68 diagnostic fee and they are putting it back together. Just trying to decide where to go from here. I plan on getting a new tractor within a year so I really don't want to put a lot of money into it. Especially not $1600. I offered to split the cost since I was obviously given bad information, but they said no. (New manager, just took over, said he is trying to clean up some previous messes. My thought is that their internal problems shouldn't be made mine. If that 5.5 hours is an accurate time then my offer to pay $800 is over that and they still wouldn't take it.) (They charge $68/hr)

cford36 · Nov 3, 2015

Hard to justify to myself a $30 seal is going to cost $1600. That's just me though.

ovrszd · Nov 4, 2015

cford36 said:
Hard to justify to myself a $30 seal is going to cost $1600. That's just me though.

Yeah, I agree.

A weakness of the 2210 is the driveshaft from the engine to the transaxle. Seems common for the Ujoints to fail in that shaft around 400 hours. I was in my local dealership one day and a 2210 owner was paying his repair bill for damage caused when that shaft failed. It was $2200. He asked how it could be that expensive. The Service Manager said it's because the entire transaxle has to be removed for the repair. He asked if there was any way to grease those joints. The Service Manager said no.

A couple months later I started feeling a slight vibration in mine. So I investigated. Yep, the front U-joint on that shaft was going out. I tackled the repair myself. I did not remove the transaxle. Removed the floorpan and fenders along with the lower steering column cover. Did the removal of the shaft, replace U-joint and create a method to grease the joints in the future, all with the powertrain intact.

I took a lot of pictures. Went down to the dealership, pictures in hand, and talked to the dealership manager first, then brought the Service Manager into the conversation. Showed them my pictures and explained that this repair could certainly be done without complete disassembly. Never even got a thank you. They reluctantly took the pics I offered and said they would look into it.

Now I regret showing them what I had learned. I'm sure they are still charging customers $2200 for the repair and are now using my shortcuts to increase their profit margin rather than passing it off to the owner in savings......

davesl708 · Nov 4, 2015

cford36. Are you sure it is the seal or not the flange the seal is in
My BX2200 started leaking and to replace the seal its self was a weekend job tearing the rear end down to get to the C clip since in Kubota's wisdom they weld the wheel hub to the shaft.

At closer look my leak was the flange where it was pressed into the axle housing not the seal. Dealer tells me those seals rarely wear out.
My fix was to drain the trans, remove the tire and slip the flange out on the axle (be carefull with the seal). Cleaned the flange and axle housing with acetone. Then applied red RTV sealer to the flange and pressed it back in. Let it dry overnight. All has been well for three years now.

cford36 · Nov 4, 2015

ovrszd said:
Yeah, I agree.

A weakness of the 2210 is the driveshaft from the engine to the transaxle. Seems common for the Ujoints to fail in that shaft around 400 hours. I was in my local dealership one day and a 2210 owner was paying his repair bill for damage caused when that shaft failed. It was $2200. He asked how it could be that expensive. The Service Manager said it's because the entire transaxle has to be removed for the repair. He asked if there was any way to grease those joints. The Service Manager said no.

A couple months later I started feeling a slight vibration in mine. So I investigated. Yep, the front U-joint on that shaft was going out. I tackled the repair myself. I did not remove the transaxle. Removed the floorpan and fenders along with the lower steering column cover. Did the removal of the shaft, replace U-joint and create a method to grease the joints in the future, all with the powertrain intact.

I took a lot of pictures. Went down to the dealership, pictures in hand, and talked to the dealership manager first, then brought the Service Manager into the conversation. Showed them my pictures and explained that this repair could certainly be done without complete disassembly. Never even got a thank you. They reluctantly took the pics I offered and said they would look into it.

Now I regret showing them what I had learned. I'm sure they are still charging customers $2200 for the repair and are now using my shortcuts to increase their profit margin rather than passing it off to the owner in savings......

Interesting you brought this up. I had mine replaced 5 years ago, same shop, charged me just over $600. And I do remember them saying that they basically had to remove the entire top of the tractor to get to it.
This dealer was bought out by a larger one and I can't remember if this was before or after that happened. Interesting that basically the same amount of work has almost tripled in cost from 5 years ago. This is just reaffirming my thought that this is way overinflated charge just trying to make money.

cford36 · Nov 4, 2015

davesl708 said:
cford36. Are you sure it is the seal or not the flange the seal is in
My BX2200 started leaking and to replace the seal its self was a weekend job tearing the rear end down to get to the C clip since in Kubota's wisdom they weld the wheel hub to the shaft.

At closer look my leak was the flange where it was pressed into the axle housing not the seal. Dealer tells me those seals rarely wear out.
My fix was to drain the trans, remove the tire and slip the flange out on the axle (be carefull with the seal). Cleaned the flange and axle housing with acetone. Then applied red RTV sealer to the flange and pressed it back in. Let it dry overnight. All has been well for three years now.

Best I can tell it's the seal. It was leaking where the shaft comes out. Also if I remember correctly, if your talking about the flange that mounts to the side of the transmission, in this case you can't get it off because some of the bolts are blocked by the frame. That's why they have to drop the transmission down to get to them.

cford36 · Nov 5, 2015

To update, I was contacted today by the dealer. Tractor is back together. Manager said he still can't discount the work if I wanted it fixed but considering the wrong information and how long they have had it he is not charging me for the diagnosis. I'm still not sure what to think of the dealership. I never asked them to diagnose the problem (which they were going to charge me $200 for) I told them what needed to be fixed, and then they tried to charge me almost 3 hours of shop time to confirm what I had asked to be fixed. The 20 hour estimate still seems way overblown. I contacted another dealer and they said 5.5 hours, which seems to confirm my suspicions.

ovrszd · Nov 5, 2015

cford36 said:
To update, I was contacted today by the dealer. Tractor is back together. Manager said he still can't discount the work if I wanted it fixed but considering the wrong information and how long they have had it he is not charging me for the diagnosis. I'm still not sure what to think of the dealership. I never asked them to diagnose the problem (which they were going to charge me $200 for) I told them what needed to be fixed, and then they tried to charge me almost 3 hours of shop time to confirm what I had asked to be fixed. The 20 hour estimate still seems way overblown. I contacted another dealer and they said 5.5 hours, which seems to confirm my suspicions.

Go get your tractor. Politely thank them for all they've done, shake their hand, vacate their property and don't go back. They know they were trying to scam you which is why they are willing for forego previous charges. I've got a Ford/New Holland dealer about 50 miles from me that I won't use for similar reasons. I drive an additional 30 miles to a dealer I trust.

stlbill · Nov 9, 2015

ovrszd said:
Yeah, I agree.

A weakness of the 2210 is the driveshaft from the engine to the transaxle....

(

I took your suggestion to my Deere dealer at about 200 hours. He told me there is no need to do anything special and suggested I use a grease gun accessory for hard to reach fittings. I tried numerous times this weekend to reach that fitting with what he sold me and it is not possible.

I am not even sure if universal joints are needed between engine and transaxle. It is a pretty straight shot.

Now at 300 hours I am still searching for a cheap way to lube that fitting.

Labrat · Nov 10, 2015

I grease mine every other fall before I put the cab on. Have it down to about 3 hours. That includes spray lubing all the pivot joints while the floor pan and rear fender is off. Just did it 2 weeks ago. 750 hours with original joints. I still had to grind a grease gun nozzle to get it to lock onto the fitting.

ovrszd · Nov 10, 2015

stlbill said:
I took your suggestion to my Deere dealer at about 200 hours. He told me there is no need to do anything special and suggested I use a grease gun accessory for hard to reach fittings. I tried numerous times this weekend to reach that fitting with what he sold me and it is not possible.

I am not even sure if universal joints are needed between engine and transaxle. It is a pretty straight shot.

Now at 300 hours I am still searching for a cheap way to lube that fitting.

Let's see if I can help ya.

First I cut a square hole in the floorpan, center, over the rear u-joint. Cut the right size you can buy the JD rubber plug to fit. That let's me reach the rear u-joint zerk with a needle fitting.

Then I removed the plastic cover below the steering column, then cut away a portion of the metal framework, then cut another square hole in the plastic with factory plug to close it, this allows me to reach the front U-joint.

These two modifications allow me to grease both joints. I grease them every 30-40 hrs or whenever I remember.

cford36 · Nov 14, 2015

ovrszd said:
Let's see if I can help ya.

First I cut a square hole in the floorpan, center, over the rear u-joint. Cut the right size you can buy the JD rubber plug to fit. That let's me reach the rear u-joint zerk with a needle fitting.

View attachment 446890

Then I removed the plastic cover below the steering column, then cut away a portion of the metal framework, then cut another square hole in the plastic with factory plug to close it, this allows me to reach the front U-joint.

View attachment 446891 View attachment 446892

These two modifications allow me to grease both joints. I grease them every 30-40 hrs or whenever I remember.