2025R Mystery

[jdwebster]

Posting because neither I nor JD can figure out what is going on with my tractor. I have a 2025R that is 3 years old with 75 hours on it (yes, not used much). The primary use is to spray my vineyard which is on a hillside with as much as 20+ degrees of slope, but not more than 25 degrees. I spray with a Rears 50 gallon pak blast that I fill to 35-40 gallons, and I have 5 75-lb weights on the front end to keep the front end down. Last season, I had an issue with water in my diesel. What happened was the tractor would lose power under significant load- if the sprayer tank was at 35 gallons and I tried to go uphill, I would lose power on the slope and the RPMs would plunge and if I didn’t let my foot off the drive, the engine would stall. Once I changed the fuel (to red diesel from a place that sells a lot of diesel) and the filters, the tractor ran fine… for a little while.

I’m now having what seems like the same issue. Replaced air, fuel filters, hydraulic fluid filter. Tractor went to JD and they replaced the injectors. No change. JD says hydraulic pressure and flow are ok. They are stumped and told me that until it breaks, they just dont know what to do. I can’t use a bigger tractor because my vineyard rows are 6 feet wide. We know that with this kind of load, the tractor is operating near the top of it’s operating range, but it worked fine before.

Looking for wisdom out there as to what I can check.

 

[oldnslo]

Do see any change in color of exhaust when this problem occurs? I.e. Black smoke, gray smoke, etc.

If you let up some on the travel pedal does engine regain RPM?

Any change if you shut the sprayer pump off (presuming PTO)? Wondering if something in spray pump could be requiring a little more power at times.

 

[beenthere]

At what gear range are you operating ??

 

[jdwebster]

Mine only has low and high. So low 4WD

 

[jeepcoma]

How full is the fuel tank when the problem occurs? Wonder if there could be an issue with the pickup that shows up at those higher angles. Fuel, air, compression, you need all three, my guess is a fueling issue under heavy load... Next time you have the problem:

1. Check how much fuel is in the tank
2. Go back down to the bottom, and try reversing back up the hill. This could help determine if the operating angle has anything to do with it.
3. Go back to the bottom, and go up forward again and see if the problem happens at the exact same spot.
4. Go back to the bottom, fill the fuel tank all the way, and try again and see what happens.

You might try each step a few different times. If you can determine the problem can be replicated consistently, under the same conditions then you can start to eliminate potential causes.

 

[jdwebster]

Interestingly, when JD sent out a repairman, the hydraulic pressure and flow tested low- which is why it went to the shop- but when they got it back to the shop, they said it tested great.

 

[Seven Gables]

If you’re fuel tank has a in the tank fuel strainer like a lot of JD’s do I’d pull it out and have a look. Sounds like it’s starving for fuel when demand increases

 

[dodge man]

A couple of things. Both filters have been changed? There is a. Little one under the floor board, left side as I recall, plus the main one in the bowl. When you had water was the little red disc in the fuel bowl floating? That’s a water indicator.

I’d take the fuel line off at the little filter on the outlet side. Fuel should pour out. This will prove the tank or lines aren’t plugged.

There is a little electric lift pump, at the back of the engine compartment, kind of under the steering wheel I think. With the key turned on you should hear that clicking. You could take a fuel line off at the main filter and make sure it’s pumping if in doubt.

I agree that it sounds like it’s starving for fuel. If it is why?

 

[dodge man]

I’ll add these are indirect injection engines. Water is not a good thing in your fuel but they are a lot less vulnerable to damage then a higher pressure common rail setup like on modern larger engines.

 

[jdwebster]

Thanks Dave

If you’re fuel tank has a in the tank fuel strainer like a lot of JD’s do I’d pull it out and have a look. Sounds like it’s starving for fuel when demand increases

I thought about that. Is there an easy way to do it? What I looked up looked a little involved.

 

[jdwebster]

How full is the fuel tank when the problem occurs? Wonder if there could be an issue with the pickup that shows up at those higher angles. Fuel, air, compression, you need all three, my guess is a fueling issue under heavy load... Next time you have the problem:

1. Check how much fuel is in the tank
2. Go back down to the bottom, and try reversing back up the hill. This could help determine if the operating angle has anything to do with it.
3. Go back to the bottom, and go up forward again and see if the problem happens at the exact same spot.
4. Go back to the bottom, fill the fuel tank all the way, and try again and see what happens.

You might try each step a few different times. If you can determine the problem can be replicated consistently, under the same conditions then you can start to eliminate potential causes.

OK. Will try. I usually keep the tank at least 1/2 full. But the problem has occurred (going forward) with as low as 1/4 and as much as full.

 

[jdwebster]

Do see any change in color of exhaust when this problem occurs? I.e. Black smoke, gray smoke, etc.

If you let up some on the travel pedal does engine regain RPM?

Any change if you shut the sprayer pump off (presuming PTO)? Wondering if something in spray pump could be requiring a little more power at times.

No change in color of exhaust that I’ve noticed. When I let up on the pedal, the engine does regain RPM, but then I’ve lost speed and to spray, I need a pretty constant speed. Letting up on the travel pedal is how I’ve been managing, but the machine just goes so slow…..

Turning the sprayer pump off (yes, PTO) does make a difference, but loss of power is still notable.

Thanks for your wisdom.

 

[jdwebster]

A couple of things. Both filters have been changed? There is a. Little one under the floor board, left side as I recall, plus the main one in the bowl. When you had water was the little red disc in the fuel bowl floating? That’s a water indicator.

I’d take the fuel line off at the little filter on the outlet side. Fuel should pour out. This will prove the tank or lines aren’t plugged.

There is a little electric lift pump, at the back of the engine compartment, kind of under the steering wheel I think. With the key turned on you should hear that clicking. You could take a fuel line off at the main filter and make sure it’s pumping if in doubt.

I agree that it sounds like it’s starving for fuel. If it is why?

Yes, changed both. One under the floor board is a pain. Disc was not floating. I don’t think the lines are plugged because the thing runs fine if it’s not under load. Have checked to see that it’s pumping, and it’s fine.

Completely agree that it seems starved for fuel. Performs exactly the same as when I had water in the fuel

 

[dodge man]

They will idle fine but then run badly if restricted for fuel when under load. I’ve had it with plugged filters in the winter. I had a filter so plugged on a previous Kubota you couldn’t blow air through it but it would idle and move around but that was it.

It’s never happened to me but an example from this forum is say an insect or a leaf get in your fuel tank and plugs the outlet. If you had water in your tank that can grow algae and plug the outlet.

 

[jdwebster]

They will idle fine but then run badly if restricted for fuel when under load. I’ve had it with plugged filters in the winter. I had a filter so plugged on a previous Kubota you couldn’t blow air through it but it would idle and move around but that was it.

It’s never happened to me but an example from this forum is say an insect or a leaf get in your fuel tank and plugs the outlet. If you had water in your tank that can grow algae and plug the outlet.

Yeah, I’d like to check that since I think there is a strainer at the outlet. LMK if you know of an easy way to do that.

 

[dodge man]

Yeah, I’d like to check that since I think there is a strainer at the outlet. LMK if you know of an easy way to do that.

Wish I could help but I’ve never done it. I’ve heard of people draining the tank and going in with a camera.

 

[Engineer42]

Algae?

 

[oldnslo]

Very off the wall thought but is there any chance the 3 point lever could get bumped and load the hydraulics which would consume power.

 

[jdwebster]

Very off the wall thought but is there any chance the 3 point lever could get bumped and load the hydraulics which would consume power.

Don’t think so. I will say that when the 3 point lever is pulled all the way back, it does make a light hiss that sounds like it’s pushing. If I move the lever a little forward, the hiss goes away. But when I go uphill with the sprayer filled and operating and on the ground, I have the same problem.

 

[jdwebster]

Algae?

Unlikely but unconfirmed. I’m in California where it doesnt get as hot and sticky. JD didn’t bring this up either.