2 hydro pumps vs 1 (Cub Cadet) vs (Kubota)

[Bamacummins]

Even though I am mostly convinced that the BX tractor is the way I want to go and have heard nothing negative (thanks to all the input on this forum), I still decided to visit my local Cub Cadet Yanmar dealer. He has a model SC 2400, 24 hp diesel with loader and MMM, which is identical to what I want with a BX 2360 or 2660 model. The customer rep was at the dealer and when I told him what I was looking for and comparing too, he began to explain their leg up on Kubota with 2 hydraulic pumps and how that I can use all the implements fully and not be concerned about loss of use in any area due to hydraulic pressure. OK, I admit I'm a novice about all this tractor stuff even though I do understand hydraulics. But he told a story about a man testing a tractor out at a show that owned several Kubotas. He loved the machine and liked them better than Kubota because when he uses is BX for loader work (i.e cleaning out horse stalls) he hates that sometimes he loses power steering temporarily due to the loading and pressure needed to operate the loader. One pump trying to do everything vs 2 pumps on the Cub.

Any opinions on this or should I be the least bit concerned? Does this happen?

 

[TripleR]

I have to admit I know nothing about Cub Cadets. I looked at them several years ago when I bought my first Kubota and the quality did not match the Kubota, so when I decided to buy a new one, I didn't even look at them. (I just checked the website and couldn't tell much.) I owned a BX2200 for five years and now my BX2660 for about six months or so and have never run into a "problem" brought on by having only a single hydraulic pump. Absolutely nothing has ever happened while using my FEL, but on occasion while mowing, if I raise the MMM while actually turning the steering wheel, I will get a slight "bump" (best I can describe it) in the steering lasting a fraction of a second. I am very happy with my Kubota, but beyond that I am afraid I can't be much help as things that are important to me may not be to you. Good luck.

 

[jimmer2880]

Perhaps the man was running an older Kubota with a lower GPM pump.

I have a Bx1830 with a mmm, loader, ps, and various rear attachments. I have never lost power steering ability, nor experienced a degraded loader or hst performance. From what I can tell, the hydraulic pump on my tractor is perfectly sized for the size tractor.

The curl cylinder on my loader could be a tad larger though

 

[tommu56]

Ive got over 300 hrs on my 23 and never noticed power steering missing a beat while doing loader work

tom

 

[Berniep]

I have never had any issues with the steering on my BX23.

I have read here that the BX has two pumps in the one unit. I don't know exactly how their duties are divided up but I am sure someone will post soon.

EDIT:
P.S.
Found a thread where there was a disussion about it:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...79-bx23-transmission-needing-replacement.html

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I've never experienced any steering/fel problems while using both. Sales men/women of any product get info concerning competition and each manuf puts something a little different in their product. That's what's pointed out even if it's of no significance. Some cars now have cigeratte lighters standard and the sales force will point this out that theirs are included but the others dealers charge for this. So what. I compared Green, Blue and Orange before I bought mine. Green was $3000 more and maybe their hook was brake somewhere different or something. Blue would lift like 60lbs more at 3ph for only $2000 more than Orange. Have never had an issue with 3ph lift power. I guess your still waiting to sell house before purchasing your Kubota. Visit more branded dealers and see what each one tells you why their product is better than all the other tractors. It can help you kill time till you buy.

 

[ttstraw]

I have felt the "bump" before when I had my 2350. Happened with loader work or any lift work when running lower to medium RPM's and quick turns or changes in direction on the steering wheel. Felt like the pwr steering gave out for just a split second until the pump could catch up to the demand. I now have a 2920 which has two pumps and I have not experienced it yet. If I was too look at the "BX" sized tractors again and single or two pump unit would be a selling point for me, leaning towards the two pump tractor.

Have fun in your search...

Tom

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

its one of those things that in theory has some merit, and in exactly the right circumstance you maybe able to show a difference... but in practice really is not a big deal.

 

[art]

I've watched a lot of demo's staged for dealers and salesmen. I've read more phamplets then I probably should have. There are companies out there that advertise their equipment at 110% of what it is capable of and some that are only at about 95%.

Then we have the I heard, someone saw!

I tell have seen very few companies that have gone backwards on new equipment design and function. I've seen some that have lowered their quality but they also came with new bells and whistles.

Some won't make the twenty year test and over the last forty years I've seen plenty of that!

For the most part you can never compare a item from ten years ago to todays units.
Last models short comings should have been updated and might be above the rest of the industry.

 

[dodge man]

I've never had a problem with my BX2350. The only thing I've notice is some feed back in the steering wheel on occasion. Say I raise the deck and when it bottoms out and the pump goes into relief, I will feel a slight bump in the steering wheel, but no loss of power steering. In my opinion, it is a non issue dreamed up as a sales gimmick.

 

[CHDinCT]

I noticed the dual pumps in the SC2400 specs plus I think it also says it has position control. Like the other replies here, I've never noticed any power steering issues, not even a fleeting bump in the steering wheel, but maybe I haven't hit that perfect storm yet.

From my perspective, as a new to the market SCUT make, the CC/Yanmar is offering a few additional features than normal in this size tractor to try to gain some market share. If they expect to gain sales, they have to offer something more than the competition or sell for a lower price, or both. The fact is they're new to the market and don't have a track record to offer potential customers.

Just keep in mind dealer and manufacturer support for things like warranty work and parts, and even resale value. Compare what that's worth to you vs the extra features of the CC/Yanmar. If you have an issue with your CC/Yanmar dealer, how close is the next dealer or two to you? Can you count on CC/Yanmar to stay in this market over the course of your ownership experience? I'm not saying they won't be around, just that you have to weight that against all the other pluses and minuses. Good luck in your tractor hunt.

 

[actionaj]

I to have never lost power steering on my 2350. Even while using the loader and three point hitch at the same time.

 

[BXRICK]

If two pump-tractors start selling better than two pump tractors, it's only a matter of time before someone uses three pumps so all the spec sheet comparisons show them as "best". Because three pumps is obviously better than two pumps.

 

[LBrown59]

If two pump-tractors start selling better than two pump tractors, it's only a matter of time before someone uses three pumps so all the spec sheet comparisons show them as "best". Because three pumps is obviously better than two pumps.

(Kubota) = no Contest.

 

[LBrown59]

I've never had a problem with my BX2350. The only thing I've notice is some feed back in the steering wheel on occasion. Say I raise the deck and when it bottoms out and the pump goes into relief, I will feel a slight bump in the steering wheel, but no loss of power steering. *In my opinion, it is a non issue dreamed up as a sales gimmick.

*
HA the CC hain't even in the running.

 

[LBrown59]

Even though I am mostly convinced that the BX tractor is the way I want to go and have heard nothing negative (thanks to all the input on this forum), I still decided to visit my local Cub Cadet Yanmar dealer. He has a model SC 2400, 24 hp diesel with loader and MMM, which is identical to what I want with a BX 2360 or 2660 model. The customer rep was at the dealer and when I told him what I was looking for and comparing too, he began to explain their *leg up on Kubota with 2 hydraulic pumps and how that I can use all the implements fully and not be concerned about loss of use in any area due to hydraulic pressure. OK, I admit I'm a novice about all this tractor stuff even though I do understand hydraulics. But he told a story about a man testing a tractor out at a show that owned several Kubotas. He loved the machine and liked them better than Kubota because when he uses is BX for loader work (i.e cleaning out horse stalls) he hates that sometimes he loses power steering temporarily due to the loading and pressure needed to operate the loader. One pump trying to do everything vs 2 pumps on the Cub.

Any opinions on this or should I be the least bit concerned? Does this happen?

Leg up , what leg up it's not even a leg to stand on.

 

[LBrown59]

If two pump-tractors start selling better than two pump tractors,

If two pump-tractors start selling better than three pump tractors,

 

[rScotty]

If two pump-tractors start selling better than two pump tractors, it's only a matter of time before someone uses three pumps so all the spec sheet comparisons show them as "best". Because three pumps is obviously better than two pumps.

What a great idea! A separate pump for the 3pt, power steering, and loader! . Could we use 4 pumps?

Seriously, it's lucky that all these pumps and valves are fantastically reliable regardless of the manufacturer. Most tractors have one pump...but when they do have two pumps, they seem to use one to drive the power steering separately so that both PS and 3pt can work simultaeously at low engine rpm. Farmers needed to work the steering hard and lift the plow at the end of each row right when they were also throttling down to make the turn - usually also locking one wheel brake. For that they need lots of flow at low rpm. That means either two small pumps in open center Ag hydraulic systems or another way to solve the problem is with a closed center hydraulic system and an accumulator.

Or of course they and you can use the low-tech solution to the flow problem and just keep the engine rpms up when using two devices at once. Hydraulically, there is nothing wrong with doing it that way.

I've had all these systems and they all have strong and weak points. IMHO, the multi-pump or closed center systems work better but also add complexity and expense.

I wouldn't initially base my decision on that point unless one of the makes had some sort of issue....But I might end up doing so because I'm one of the guys who likes to run my diesels at low rpm. It's just my preference. And if that is also your preference then the CC would be worth another look. Having Yanmar engine is also a plus for any tractor. JD proved that.
rScotty
Kubota M59, JD530 Ag, various Yanmars

 

[MDM]

I don't the what the salesman said has any real merit. That said, I would not hesitate to look closely at the Cub/Yanmar. I'm a Kubota fan, but it is no secret that that Yanmar has been making rock solid compacts and scuts for alot of years now.

 

[Bamacummins]

. I guess your still waiting to sell house before purchasing your Kubota. Visit more branded dealers and see what each one tells you why their product is better than all the other tractors. It can help you kill time till you buy.

You're right, John, just killing time until I can purchase. But, I thought it would still be good to shop around just to be sure although I'm pretty convinced at this point. I usually research these things almost to the point of exhaustion, but it is fun knowing I will purchase one soon. It was just something that got my attention when he mentioned the pumps so I knew this would bring the responses on. And as I expected most of the folks say it isn't an issue with Kubota. Thanks again for all the input, you guys are making it easy for me to decide.