1968 Ford 4000 runs rough, sputters, pops, surges, etc...

[pswett]

"Houston I got a problem". Here's my story.
1. I changed the spark plugs, wires, coil, points, condenser, wire harness, and rebuilt the carb.
2. Would not start. So I changed carb. Still wouldn't start. Figured I messed up the carb.
3. Found aftermarket points with two manufacturing defects that kept points grounded.
4. Got it started, but it was not firing right. Couldn't get it to throttle up to High Idle with sputtering, surging, and popping.
5. Replaced Coil.
6. Got really confused with which Coil to use with Starter Relay Jumper and Resistor Wire.
7. Installed 2nd Coil. Resistor Wire and Jumper Wire.
8. Replaced the distributor. Went from OEM which is Mech + Vacuum to just Mech. Got it started, everything was good at low idle, but when driving it to Machine Shed it started sputtering and then died.
9. Started over, #1 at TDC on Compression Stroke, push rods turn, and timing mark at zero. Removed and reinstalled distributor with rotor pointed to #1 terminal. Points were just opening. Set the points to .025 on High Lobe. I replaced resistor wire with normal 14 ga wire and disconnected the jumper from the I terminal of the starter relay. Figured I must have coil with internal resistor.
10. Pulled Coil wire to see if it was firing and grounded to block. Spark was orange. And, since I had the cap off, I saw the points sparking erratically. I thought I saw that before with 3 inline spark testers, but couldn't tell. Ordered Points and Condenser. Now on-hold for parts.
11. BTW - Volts during cranking at the Batt side of coil are below spec. Should I reconnect jumper from starter relay?

Also, ordered a coil with a resistor and one without. Not sure if either is right. Which should I use? Words of Wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

I am going to put new Zenith Carb back on.

Other Stuff: swapped carbs back and forth - no change. Emptied tank and cleaned. Valve Lash adjusted. Compression is 95 105 95. Leak tested each cylinder at TDC with no pressure loss. Firing order is 1, 2, 3. Distributor shaft rotates counterclockwise. Governor rod was adjusted.

 

[John0829]

I feel your pain, it seems you have tried most everything one would normally do. I had a nearly similar deal happen on my old 850, a tractor that has never failed me, it got hard to start and with some spluttering till it would barely pull itself. Turns out my problem was poor quality points and a definitely bad condenser. With the good quality points and condenser installed, the old 850 starts at barely a touch of the button. I recommend you try using NAPA points (CS753) and condenser (FA66SB) and if you are unsure of your coil get a NAPA (IC14SB) coil, the resistor is built in. Just run a 12V wire directly to it. The part numbers are for the 4 cylinder engine and the 3 cylinder should also use the same parts.

Also be sure to check the through bolt insulator on the side of the distributor. Just so you know the resistor was incorporated in the OEM coil feed wire so use a new wire if you use a coil that does not require a resistor.

 

[FordnMassey]

Hi,
Nothing specific to add that's helpful, except to say that I too have installed new parts and found them inoperable or poorly operable. It's very frustrating.

 

[pswett]

My son thinks its the governor. We disconnected the linkage that goes to the carb and just held the butterfly by hand. Actually seemed better, but no way to test drive. Can anyone explain the flyball governor. I can't find a Description & Operation section in the manual. Is there a failure mode of the governor, that would result in popping and surging which would make you think you've got fuel problem.

 

[jaxs]

Governor doesn't cause those symptoms but if you get it out of adjustment the engine will bogg or surge under load. Condensers cause these symptoms and quility of new is very poor,not uncommon to be bad right out of package. Put the origional back on if you can find it or as suggested above,buy NAPA.
One of these make's it much easier to detect poor spark and intermittent spark caused by bad condenser. And the cherry on top,no more and *%@%$#* from holding plugwires in hand.

 

[John0829]

You said you had orange spark, spark IS your problem. Don't go looking for something wrong that is not. Way to many good fuel systems have been screwed up because of bad spark.

 

[jaxs]

You said you had orange spark, spark IS your problem. Don't go looking for something wrong that is not. Way to many good fuel systems have been screwed up because of bad spark.

I totally agree with what you are saying but the device I posted above is far more accurate than judging spark jumping from wire to a ground.

 

[John0829]

Link did not work for me, I try to teach anyone working on a point ignition system to READ the wear on the points. If you know what you are looking at it is easy to know if you have a good condenser or not. Besides after 60+ years of being shocked by plug wires whats one more

 

[pswett]

When I'm trying to get O degrees in the observation window, I'm not able to see the balloon inflate, turn the crank, and watch for the mark. So, I have turned the engine backwards with the breaker bar to get the mark in the window. Have I done something to the timing because of doing that?

I watched a Steiner Video and I think I'm doing everything correctly. But it's got to be something with the Distributor, Points, timing.

Maybe I can document what I'm doing with pictures and then send an audio file.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

When I'm trying to get O degrees in the observation window, I'm not able to see the balloon inflate, turn the crank, and watch for the mark. So, I have turned the engine backwards with the breaker bar to get the mark in the window. Have I done something to the timing because of doing that?

I watched a Steiner Video and I think I'm doing everything correctly. But it's got to be something with the Distributor, Points, timing.

Maybe I can document what I'm doing with pictures and then send an audio file.

They'll also sputter if the seat is dirty or if that little spring is not right on the float.