1952 Ford 8N won't start

[rickdmedina]

This Spring, I took my 1952 Ford 8N (I have owned this 8N for about 5 years) to the local New Holland dealer for some maintenance work. At the time, the 8N was running, I had recently changed the oil, filter, plugs, points, condenser, but I was concerned about the transmission, hydraulics, and needed my old Brush Hog repaired. They also replaced my carburetor with a rebuilt. They tuned it up, changed all fluids, and fixed my brush hog.

The work was done to my utmost satisfaction, though the entire job cost me about $1,200.

Two weeks later, because of my stupidity (I admit I was tired), the tractor was back in the shop because I smashed up the front end and punctured the radiator and did other damage by hitting a tree. Don't ask why, because I wasn't thinking. Anyway, this cost me $1,000 to get it running again.

So, after I got the tractor back, I was brush hogging my 4 acre field at the back of the property and the tractor just stalled and I couldn't get it restarted. It still hasn't started.

My wife told me the budget says I cannot take the tractor back to the New Holland Dealer this year. I must fix it myself.

OK, the tractor is a 6 volt negative ground (the negative wire on the battery is connected to the frame).

I have made the following repairs: I replaced the coil, the spark plug wires, checked the carburetor (gas flows through the carb), and had to replace the fuel line from the sediment bowl to the carburetor because I stripped the threads on the elbow and the nut holding the fuel line in place. I have checked for spark at the coil, from the spark plug, and the spark plug wires (all 4), No spark what so ever (yes, I had the key turned on - did that before). My battery is a year old. Last winter wasn't too bad in Northeast Ohio, though I had a trickle charger attached to the tractor all winter.

I think my problem is somewhere between the positive side of the battery (starter, solenoid, generator, or the wiring). I do not know where to start, what to check, or how to check it. I am a bit concerned about the wiring. The wiring is a mishmash of different kinds of wire - some looks like it's for a tractor and some looks like it came from household electrical wiring. I think the tractor has been rebuilt once, but I do not know when it was done or how extensive the repairs were.

I have not touched the points, condenser, or plugs, because they were all changed a month ago (or so - repairs #1).

I personally think something shorted out and that is the reason I cannot get any spark. The engine will crank and crank and crank but never a spark. Prior to the stalling, all I had to do was turn the gas on (sediment bowl), put the tractor in neutral, turn the ignition key on, choke for a second, and press the starter button and she purred like a kitten. Now nothing.

I saw a used 10 year old New Holland Diesel but the boss said NO.

Can someone give a skinny old guy some direction on how to get his tractor started (without going back to the Dealer)?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice (or constructive criticism).
Rick

 

[murphy1244]

Welcome to TBN neighbor, Medina Tractor is expensive.Check to see if your getting power to the coil. Hopefully Sound guy will come on.
Should of posted in the Ford forum. Murph

 

[94BULLITT]

I thought all 8n's were positive ground. If your wiring is in bad shape I would put a new harness on it. They are not that expensive. Save yourself from a fire. Wiring Harness, Ford 8N with Side Distributor - 0236562 | Tractor Supply Company Do check the wiring at the coil. Do you have a hot wire going to it? Are the points in good shape? Do you have a PTO overruning clutch?

 

[murphy1244]

And the best part is there is a TSC in the great city of Medina

 

[94BULLITT]

And the best part is there is a TSC in the great city of Medina

If it is like the one around here your are lucky if they have a cat1 top link pin.

 

[murphy1244]

The store is pretty well stocked and a second store is not far away.

 

[94BULLITT]

Step 1: Take the distributor cap off and turn the engine over and make sure the distributor is turning.
Step 2: Check the point gap it needs to be .015", you can use a match pack to get close. Turn it over til the points open. If they don't open adjust them.
Step 3: Check the points to see if they are shiny or have a tip burned on them. If they have a tip burned on them clean with fine sand paper or emery cloth
Step 4: Make sure you have a hot wire going to the coil (with key on) on the + side

By now you should have found your problem if not it is possibly the coil. Let us know what you find or if you have questions.

 

[murphy1244]

Bump For soundguy or whodunit.

 

[Soundguy]

OMG.. 2200$ for maintenance and small repairs! e-gads!


ok.. won't crank or won't start?

if won't crank.. check bat, cables and terminal ends..

if won't start.. roll her over and check for spark at a plug. if no spark.. hotwire coil and check again.. if none.. regap points...

once you get spark.. if still no run.. try some start fluid into mouth of carb with breather disconnected. if this gets her started but she stalls.. it's fuel.

post back with more details.. like side or front mount.. etc

 

[rickdmedina]

She cranks, but won't start.
I checked for spark at the plug (all 4) nothing.
hotwire the coil: the positive side of the coil (wired to the generator) to the starter? alligator clips on a wire?
OK. my 8N is (1952) Negative Ground, 6 Volt, Side mount distributor, wiring: old.
Just a question about the points: while running (and the tractor was running strong for about two hours when it stalled), could the points just fail?
I just don't see any spark from the coil.
I'm just frustrated.
Thanks for your help,
Rick

 

[94BULLITT]

No the points will not go bad at once. Go through the steps I have in post 7 a let us know what you find if you have any questions.

 

[tnmike]

Clean the points with some fine grit sandpaper or a point file if you have one. I bet that is the problem.

The next failure point would be the coil. They are prone to failing under load when they get hot. Ive had several on other engines do so.

Check the coil wire as well. The ignition system is pretty simple.

 

[Soundguy]

your coil is not wired tot he genny.. it's wired to the key switch..

to hot wire the coil just run a wire from battery hot to the primary of the coil. other side of primary goes to distribuitor feedthru stud/insulator.

can points fail? sure. they could get loose and close up.. the rubbing block could wear down if you did not use and cam lobe lube on it.. that will close them up.. once closed up a bit they will arc and pit and not work. condensor could have shorted, thus coil is always grounded.. condensor could have opened, thus points arced and burned... small copper strip from inside of dizzy feedthru insulated stud to points and condensor could have cracked, insulated feed thru stud could have cracked and shorted stud to ground at side of dizzy.. advance mechanism may have come apart wiping out insulator and copper strip. breaker plate could have degraded allowing a short from the moving side of the points so that they are shorted.

or could all be upstream.. like a bad key switch.. bad wire, connector.. or even an open coil primary or secondary.

hotwire and check.. then check points to make sure they open and close are gapped right and clean.. then if still nothing, put a test lamp inline with hotwire to coil primary.. run starter over.. lamp should blink. if no lamp.. points are open.. or coil is open.. .. if lamp stays on.. soemthing is shorted.. or points are closed
.

don't overlook east stuff like damaged /cracked rotor shorting spark.. or a carbon tracked cap. i use the coil center wire with a spare plug in it laying on block to check spark..
post back

 

[rickdmedina]

I will check the wire to the coil. I will also check the points.

One more thing: I replaced the old coil, which was on the tractor when it originally stalled. But I am not convinced that was my problem.

Rick

 

[Soundguy]

No the points will not go bad at once. Go through the steps I have in post 7 a let us know what you find if you have any questions.

yes, they can.... the screw can come loose and they can close up.

the rubbing block can wear from lack of lube. the cheap tisco and chinese points with black plastic block wear badly.. and with no lube can wear out EXTREMELY quick.

 

[Soundguy]

One more thing: I replaced the old coil, which was on the tractor when it originally stalled. But I am not convinced that was my problem.

Rick

not surprising.

shotgun approach to fixing a tractor usually repalces many parts not needed.. vs troubleshooting first.

post back with observations of tests.

 

[Soundguy]

Clean the points with some fine grit sandpaper or a point file if you have one. I bet that is the problem.

The next failure point would be the coil. They are prone to failing under load when they get hot. Ive had several on other engines do so.

Check the coil wire as well. The ignition system is pretty simple.

an ignition hone is ok if done with a light hand.. and not enough to go thru the hard layer.

sand paper.. only as a last resort.. and be prepaired to change them or keep sanding. sand paper removes the hard coating on points and gets you to the soft base metal that wears and pits faster.. thus requires more sanding, more often. also.. most people that sand don't them pull a piece of paper thru the points to clean the abrasive off.. that leaves you with micro abrasives imbeded int he points holdign them open a micron or so.. that leads to MORE arcing and pitting... some grit, like garnet, is non conductive.. etc...

 

[rickdmedina]

Sounds like a plan (hot wire the coil). Like I said, the wiring is very old (as I am and the tractor), so I have suspected the wiring.

I just don't think it's anything under the distributor cap (rotor, condenser, points), because they are new (plus I didn't do it). but, I will check the distributor cap (take it off look at the points and rotor).

I am going to try it tonight.

Thanks for the advice (I really appreciate it),
Rick

 

[Soundguy]

hot wire first before you do anything.

fell free to email or pm me tonight or post back if you hit a snag. i read the forums all day.. i just leave a window open on the browser all the time.. and look at it when i walk by

 

[94BULLITT]

yes, they can.... the screw can come loose and they can close up.

the rubbing block can wear from lack of lube. the cheap tisco and chinese points with black plastic block wear badly.. and with no lube can wear out EXTREMELY quick.

I really don't see how that would be considered the points failing if the screw came out.