1850 Pump ideas

woodlandfarms · Nov 26, 2012

I have been trying to figure out how to do it in 3 ways.. Cheap, Ergonomic, Convenient, and not confusing. Saddly, like any job, One of the three needs to be compromised.

I am thinking about tying into the seat hydraulics. Haven't figured out the control system yet. Sort of have a design for the 3pt hitch. Will call Taswell to see if they have pix of their old design.

Carl

SpringHollow · Nov 26, 2012

If I were doing this, I would Tee with priority to steering and use an electric solenoid valve perhaps with flow restrictors at the cylinders. It is much easier to run a few wires through the tunnel versus hoses. Our tunnels are pretty packed although i was able to run a large ground and some power wires through it. Even used a piece of hose to protect them and to be used as a future path for any additional wires.

If desired, you could even make the electric setup 3-way so you could control the hydraulics from the back of the tractor as well. An example would be if you were using a log splitter run by the PT.

Carl, just a thought but if you want this just for running cylinders, get a used 12V hydraulic pump setup taken off of a truck lift. Go for pretty cheap $. Then use 12V switch to turn the pump on and a switch for up or down. Ideally valves would hold the cylinders in place and you use the pump to power it up or down with the appropriate end of the cylinder being vented back to the tank. Even cheaper is pump to raise, then vent and let the weight lower it. But that is not great for pushing steel into the ground.

Ken

MossRoad · Nov 26, 2012

SpringHollow said:
If I were doing this, I would Tee with priority to steering and use an electric solenoid valve perhaps with flow restrictors at the cylinders. It is much easier to run a few wires through the tunnel versus hoses. Our tunnels are pretty packed although i was able to run a large ground and some power wires through it. Even used a piece of hose to protect them and to be used as a future path for any additional wires.

If desired, you could even make the electric setup 3-way so you could control the hydraulics from the back of the tractor as well. An example would be if you were using a log splitter run by the PT.

Carl, just a thought but if you want this just for running cylinders, get a used 12V hydraulic pump setup taken off of a truck lift. Go for pretty cheap $. Then use 12V switch to turn the pump on and a switch for up or down. Ideally valves would hold the cylinders in place and you use the pump to power it up or down with the appropriate end of the cylinder being vented back to the tank. Even cheaper is pump to raise, then vent and let the weight lower it. But that is not great for pushing steel into the ground.

Ken

Well now you're trying to keep it simple.... that's crazy talk!

:laughing:

MossRoad · Nov 26, 2012

How responsive are electric controls VS a hand operated joystick? I suppose flow restrictors would limit them from slamming up or down.

J_J · Nov 29, 2012

You could run a parallel circuit off the PTO of your machine to the back. If nothing is plugged in, the fluid is returned to tank. The PTO valve is a solenoid valve, with on/off switch, and a two position valve would switch the flow between the front and back. Just route the fluid to a two spool lever valve for the back hyd which may provide you with float, detent, or motor spool., etc.

You could also use a splitter or priority valve like this. You choose a valve with the priority flow you desire and the rest goes to the other circuit or tank.

Surplus Center - 5/30 GPM PRINCE PRIORITY FLOW DIVIDER W/RELIEF

This valve has a priority flow or controlled flow of 5 GPM, so if your GPM input was 20 GPM, 15 GPM would go to excess flow port.

MossRoad · Nov 29, 2012

J_J said:
You could run a parallel circuit off the PTO of your machine to the back. If nothing is plugged in, the fluid is returned to tank. The PTO valve is a solenoid valve, with on/off switch, and a two position valve would switch the flow between the front and back. Just route the fluid to a two spool lever valve for the back hyd which may provide you with float, detent, or motor spool., etc.

You could also use a splitter or priority valve like this. You choose a valve with the priority flow you desire and the rest goes to the other circuit or tank.

Surplus Center - 5/30 GPM PRINCE PRIORITY FLOW DIVIDER W/RELIEF

This valve has a priority flow or controlled flow of 5 GPM, so if your GPM input was 20 GPM, 15 GPM would go to excess flow port.

I think the only drawback of that setup would be you could not control the valves from the operators position. If you just wanted to feed something like a log splitter that would be O.K. But if you wanted to raise and lower implements while driving, the PTO circuit might not be the way to go.

J_J · Nov 29, 2012

Why would you not want a two spool valve to raise lower, and tilt the attachment.

The PTO circuit would be on and fluid flowing to the two spool valve, maybe located to the left of the steering wheel to control rear attachments.

I see no disadvantage at all.

MossRoad · Nov 30, 2012

J_J said:
Why would you not want a two spool valve to raise lower, and tilt the attachment.

The PTO circuit would be on and fluid flowing to the two spool valve, maybe located to the left of the steering wheel to control rear attachments.

I see no disadvantage at all.

I think that would be a great idea, however, according to several owners, there isn't enough room to fit the additional hoses through the tunnel.

SpringHollow · Nov 30, 2012

There might be room to squeeze two 1/4" - 3/8" hoses. I was able to squeeze in a small garden hose which i use as an electrical conduit through the tunnel.

Ken

MossRoad · Dec 1, 2012

SpringHollow said:
There might be room to squeeze two 1/4" - 3/8" hoses. I was able to squeeze in a small garden hose which i use as an electrical conduit through the tunnel.

Ken

Let's pretend you have enough room and see what it takes.

If it were me, and I wanted to run one cylinder at the rear of the tractor using the joystick as my control, I would install an electric solenoid diverter valve in the curl/dump circuit for the bucket somewhere on the front of the tractor.
I'd feed it with the two lines that currently feed the dump curl circuit.
One output of the diverter valve would continue to fee the dump/curl circuit.
The second output of the diverter valve would feed the cylinder at the rear of the tractor.
That would only require two hoses to be run to the rear of the tractor through the tunnel.

If you want to control more than one cylinder, you can get electric solenoid diverter valves that can be stacked to control as many circuits as you need.
You will have to run two hoses for each cylinder that you want to control.

MossRoad · Dec 1, 2012

You then mount the electric control button on your joystick.
Flick it one way and it controls the dump/curl.
Flick it the other way and it controls the rear cylinder with the same joystick motions as the dump/curl.

Or, you could use a momentary pushbutton switch or a push once/push again switch.
I've seen joystick handles with several buttons for controlling multiple circuits.

SpringHollow · Dec 1, 2012

Or just run one pressure hose through the trunk and some electric lines for any additional circuits besides the first cylinder. Then run a line from them back to the tank. But for just controlling a couple of cylinders, I still like the idea of installing a used 12V pump from a truck lift gate. I paid $50 for one. Or installing a priority valve at the pump, giving priority to the steering. I think I like that idea even better than the 12v pump.

There is much more room to mount things in the rear tub and you do not have to pay for all of that hose either.

Ken

MossRoad · Dec 2, 2012

I don't know where you would tap off a pressure hose from the front.

On mine the pressure hose comes from the pump.
Pump to steering valve.
Steering valve power beyond port to joystick/aux PTO valve.
Joystick/aux PTO valve low pressure back to the tank.
If the joystick/aux PTO valve has a power beyond port, you could tap off of that to feed the rear circuits.
If not, I don't know where you would tap it.

It is looking like the priority valve right off the pump splitting to two circuits with priority to the front is a good way to go. However, there are some issues running hydraulics over wire in a simple manner like we are talking about.

For one, it is either off or on. So you have no ability to feather the controls. You can limit response speed with orifice restriction and engine speed, but if you need to do fine movement, you will have to restrict it down so far that you will never get fast movement out of the circuit.

Unless you purchase some very expensive electric valves and controls, which could be costly.

What are you planning to run behind the tractor, anyway? I forgot. :laughing:

J_J · Dec 2, 2012

If you have the money, proportional hyd valves is the way to go.

Split a circuit off the pump and control by a variable voltage source, using a couple of wires through the tunnel.

Just what attachment are you planning for the back, visibility is minimum.

Maybe a camera looking at the 3pt.

SpringHollow · Dec 2, 2012

MossRoad said:
I don't know where you would tap off a pressure hose from the front.

If going that route, he could add the additional circuits like I did mine using selector valves to select the new circuit or the existing tilt etc circuits. Then he could still use his existing joystick for controlling both.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/221220-added-additional-hydraulic-circuits-pt1850.html

Ken

MossRoad · Dec 2, 2012

SpringHollow said:
If going that route, he could add the additional circuits like I did mine using selector valves to select the new circuit or the existing tilt etc circuits. Then he could still use his existing joystick for controlling both.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/221220-added-additional-hydraulic-circuits-pt1850.html

Ken

That's what I was thinking, too, but it would require running multiple hoses to the rear and there's apparently a premium on space in the tunnel.

J_J · Dec 3, 2012

If you add the selector valve or splitter valve or priority valve in the back, you only have to add some wire to control the solenoid.

No extra hoses through the tunnel.

Surplus Center - 12 VDC 13.2 GPM SAE 8 DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE

A 2 or 3 spool solenoid valve would satisfy most operations in the back .

2 OR 3 OF THESE

Surplus Center - 12 VDC 10 GPM OC DA SOLENOID VALVE

1 OF THESE.

Surplus Center - 3 STATION DO3 SERIES OC SUBPLATE

MossRoad · Dec 3, 2012

Yes, but as I mentioned before, you can't feather those solenoid valves. They are either on or off. They can't do precision movements, if you need that kind of thing.

J_J · Dec 3, 2012

Well then he has these options .

Either run a set of hoses to the back through the tunnel, using a diverter valve up front.

Use solenoid valves.

Use proportional solenoid valves.

Simple 3pt uses one cyl, and two arms, but could use two cyl, with one spool valve.