1720 pto woes

[roman]

1720 PTO wont engage, just grinds. I was able to get it meshed to try my new chipper which worked fine. Don't want to continue grinding each time for pto.
I tried clutch linkage adj. as others noted here with no luck. I tried waiting 15-20 seconds after activating clutch, no luck. I did notice when the pto was running, pushing in the clutch didn't stop it.
What next?
Any help greatly appriciated!

Mark

 

[RickB]

Your tractor needs to be split and have the clutch repaired.

 

[JC-jetro]

1720 PTO wont engage, just grinds. I was able to get it meshed to try my new chipper which worked fine. Don't want to continue grinding each time for pto.
I tried clutch linkage adj. as others noted here with no luck. I tried waiting 15-20 seconds after activating clutch, no luck. I did notice when the pto was running, pushing in the clutch didn't stop it.
What next?
Any help greatly appriciated!

Mark

Mark,

With the engine " OFF , PTO engaged and clutch out, can you turn the PTO final shaft by hand in both directions? If so that indicates your first clutch disk (pto) is worn out and can't grab. You have a live dual clutch system with your rig.

JC,

 

[roman]

Rick -I think you are right...

JC- I know there are issues because when I pushed the clutch in the chipper kept spinning.

I have some one comming by this week to look at her.

Thanks Guys!

 

[Bedlam]

There is a good posting on here of what your up against if you have to split for the clutch.Great pics I thought
Believe this is the Link but keep searching the threads.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/new-holland-owning-operating/152875-ford-1700-clutch-problem.html

 

[roman]

Hey JC. I tried your suggestion, Tractor off, engage the PTO. The PTO shaft wouldn't turn.

thanks , Mark

 

[JC-jetro]

Hey JC. I tried your suggestion, Tractor off, engage the PTO. The PTO shaft wouldn't turn.

thanks , Mark

Hey Mark,

That's actually not bad. Although, the torque you provide by your hand is many many time less than an implement at least is shows that the disk is somewhat is tight against the pressure plate and the flywheel.. may be not slipping... hopefully.

Now, do the same test with the clutch in, if you can spin the pto shaft, then that means full clutch pedal travel can disengage the pto clutch, which is also a good news.

Let us know.

JC,

 

[roman]

Hey Mark,

That's actually not bad. Although, the torque you provide by your hand is many many time less than an implement at least is shows that the disk is somewhat is tight against the pressure plate and the flywheel.. may be not slipping... hopefully.

Now, do the same test with the clutch in, if you can spin the pto shaft, then that means full clutch pedal travel can disengage the pto clutch, which is also a good news.

Let us know.

JC,

I cant spin the shaft by hand. I was looking for the electrical override switch to allow starting with pto engaged.

 

[Bedlam]

thats true if you can get it engaged with engine off, and find and jump the switch then you should be able top start it with PTO engaged and use it.But there is still a problem somewhere.But this might work for you for now or ever, depends.

 

[JC-jetro]

I cant spin the shaft by hand. I was looking for the electrical override switch to allow starting with pto engaged.

That's good too but I think there is underlining problem as Rick indicated. in your original post you said, "pto would not engage and just grind". From what you said i hoped that on the second test the pto would not spin as freely due to maladjustment. if pto clutch disk actually lost surface thickness you should not have pto torque but why grinding?

I don't think electrical override can help if you actually have worn disk material like Rick was suggesting.

If I were you at this point I'd try to adjust the clutch play to absolute minimum so the release bearing is as close as possible to pressure plate fingers short of touching it. I then run it with an implement attached, tiller would be good, if you lower the tiller and engage dirt the pto clutch should slip if there nit enough disk thickness left which unfortunately means a tractor split.

Let us know,
JC,



Edit. I reread your reply and just realized you said pto did not spin rather than it spinned. Actually I was hoping you said that so I would conclude that you are not completely depress the pressure plate finger. what i suggested in this post should hopefully work unless you have no lining left , hopefully that would not be true as you said on your earliest post if pto is engaged it would work with no issue. try adjustment and report back.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

What typically happens is that the PTO clutch has rusted itself to the pressure plate. Usually it can be unstuck but the pto will have to be engaged before the engine cranks. Be careful, you will have to bypass the safety lockouts. Then, with the clutch depressed, (the pto will still be turning of course), the pto will need to be put under heavy load. This cycle may need to be repeated a couple of times and with luck it'll break loose. Its common if the PTO clutch is not used or it gets hot and sits up in humid weather to stick.

Its also possible that the release bearing has seized and the clutch fingers have worn through.

The overide is usually somewhere close to the underside of the clutch pedal or the engaging mechanism. You'll have to short the wires together I believe.

 

[roman]

Located the switch leads under the floor and shorted them out. This was a quick fix to a problem I will solve when I split the tractor to replace the throwout bearing.
This fix works well actually and so does the new Wallenstein bx 42 chipper.
Thanks to all for your help. This site rocks!

Mark

 

[JC-jetro]

Located the switch leads under the floor and shorted them out. This was a quick fix to a problem I will solve when I split the tractor to replace the throwout bearing.
This fix works well actually and so does the new Wallenstein bx 42 chipper.
Thanks to all for your help. This site rocks!

Mark

Hey Mark,

Splitting the tractor might be your last resort and that's okay..but I don't know if you removed all possibilities. Mark at everlast had a good idea as well. if you can not spin the final pto shaft with engine off , pto engaged and clutch pedal fully depressed then it can also could mean stuck pto clutch disk. I have the following suggestion to see if you can verify that.
You need to shock load the pto disk with the clutch pedal fully depressed. that might free up the pto clutch disk against the flywheel. I'd do the following by using a tiller if you have. I'd hook a tiller to the 3 point with PTO disengaged. I'll move a tractor somewhere safe in the field with the tiller lifted up in the air and turn the tractor off. I then engage the pto, turn the tractor on and expect to see the tiller turning. I'd then depress the clutch all the way (if pto disk is stuck it will continue turning). I would engage the ground at low speed while continuously pressing the pedal all the way, I'd increase the rpm and lower the tiller tine to the ground and hope the torque provided to free up the disk. If the pto rotation stops then I call it good. if clutch once sticks then it will have tendency to do it often. so I'd block the clutch by a piece of 2x4 in storage. if this does not cure your problem, then split is the only option left.

good luck,
JC,






mark at everlast

 

[roman]

JC-
I only have the chipper for PTO. If my lady derpesses the clutch and I stop the chipper (as I have once already) with a big long limb wouldn't that be the same scanario?

 

[JC-jetro]

JC-
I only have the chipper for PTO. If my lady derpesses the clutch and I stop the chipper (as I have once already) with a big long limb wouldn't that be the same scanario?

Mark,

it would be the same. I suppose you have the chipper running, then you ask your friend to depress the clutch all the way. I'd expect the chipper continue to run if your pto clutch is stuck. feeding the chipper with a big long limb might just free up the PTO clutch disk.

JC,

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Yes, it would be the same, just be careful.

But I would disagree with the advice of blocking your clutch, though some do it.

Springs under compression for indefinite periods of time loose the strength and it will cause as many problems as it solves.

 

[JC-jetro]

Yes, it would be the same, just be careful.


Springs under compression for indefinite periods of time loose the strength and it will cause as many problems as it solves.

true to a point on spring. If material is good and right K (stiffness) then the issue is very minimal at best. There are many many , mechanical or electrical device that use spring in fully compressed fashion and they have hardly any issue with repeatability.

I never had a sticky clutch disk but I do block my clutch with a piece of 2X4 but never fully compress the pedal, only partially so I would not have solid surface to surface bond due to moisture and rust.

JC,

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

I used to be a FNH technician. I can tell you that this was not a recommended practice.

Most springs do not have the heat cycles that clutch springs do. Blocking the clutch definitely can weaken the springs. Partially compressing the springs may not disengage the PTO clutch, but if you have it far enough in to disengage the PTO clutch, then you have already fully compressed the engine clutch springs.

 

[JC-jetro]

I used to be a FNH technician. I can tell you that this was not a recommended practice.

Most springs do not have the heat cycles that clutch springs do. Blocking the clutch definitely can weaken the springs. Partially compressing the springs may not disengage the PTO clutch, but if you have it far enough in to disengage the PTO clutch, then you have already fully compressed the engine clutch springs.

Please look at the attached file. Owner's manual recommend blocking for long time storage as well. By the way , I block it during the winter time.

Jc,

 

[Soundguy]

Yes, it would be the same, just be careful.

But I would disagree with the advice of blocking your clutch, though some do it.

Springs under compression for indefinite periods of time loose the strength and it will cause as many problems as it solves.

then how come tractor manufacturers give you factory cut blocks of wood for doing so, or other schemes for doing it.

My 1997 NH 1920 came with a wood wedge on a string in the tool box for blocking the clutch.

I'm kinda guessing that size a company probably researched the concept a bit before just randomly supplying those parts??

soundguy