16' opening Door header: on load bearing wall

[LD1]

Sometimes it's better to spend the money and get what's designed to do the job. How much do you expect to save engineering and building something yourself? How long time are you willing to put into it versus just popping a glulam up there and being done with it?

3 1/2" x 11 7/8" x 16'9" for $190 is what I'd use.

https://shop.mccoys.com/building-materials/lumber/engineered-lumber-products/laminated-beams/p.1536

Eddie

For the same money, I'd rather go with a W10x22 I-beam. Which would have a max deflection of 1/4" under a full 6000# point load at mid span.

What would the deflection on that LVL be? I havent found anything relating to point loads at midspan when it comes to LVL's.

I am sure there are many thousands of buildings out there with a 16' door on a side that are/were built without fancy LVL's or I-beams. Just using conventional 2x lumber and/or plywood.

If height or width constraints were an issue, I could understand spending $200+ for steel or LVL stuff.

But neither is an issue. I can go as wide as 7" and as deep as 24". I am sure this can easily be accomplished. What would they have done before LVL's Is what I am asking I guess?

I am not opposed to spending the $200 for a proper beam. But would want some justification as to why/how That beam will be $120 better than some conventional 2x lumber and plywood. (and times two cause I am doing 2 doors).

 

[LD1]

Not understanding why there is an issue? You are not the first person to put a 16' door in the side of a pole barn.

Mine has a 16' door in the side, with a second floor above it.

I have a wood header, with a 1/2" steel flitch pate in it.

There is no perceivable deflection over the span.

I would never use anything else but steel, for a span like that. Steel is the only thing I have not seen sag.

A plate of 1/2" x 12" steel that is 16' long would cost (and weight) about the same as an I beam that can do the job by itself. IF steel is to be included, I would rather just go all steel via an i-beam.

 

[ray66v]

A plate of 1/2" x 12" steel that is 16' long would cost (and weight) about the same as an I beam that can do the job by itself. IF steel is to be included, I would rather just go all steel via an i-beam.

Suit yourself. Incorporating a steel I beam inside a wood wall, creates its own problems. i.e. You can't attach it directly, or attach anything to it, without drilling holes in it. Which is a lot of work.

 

[EddieWalker]

millions and millions of houses have 16 foot garage door openings all over the country and where built with two 2x12. Some with plywood, others with a 2x4 under them. While I don't know how many of them have to hold 6,000 pounds at the middle of their span, I do know that it's pretty rare for a header over a garage to have any issues.

Speaking of 6,000 pounds, where did that number come from?

Eddie

 

[ray66v]

millions and millions of houses have 16 foot garage door openings all over the country and where built with two 2x12. Some with plywood, others with a 2x4 under them. While I don't know how many of them have to hold 6,000 pounds at the middle of their span, I do know that it's pretty rare for a header over a garage to have any issues. Eddie

True. It's also pretty rare for them to not have an inch, or more of sag in the center.

 

[jix]

Here is what I have done (successfully) Two 2x12 pressure treated spruce planks layered with 3/4 " 5-ply fir plywood between them and. pre-stressed with a 2" crown facing UP and glued with Yellow Waterproof Resin glue from LePage, then NAILED, not bolted, on a close diamond pattern, with spiral zinc-coated 3 1/2 nails on a 16 foot span, resting on top of 4x4 PT square posts, with 1/4" thick mild steel cheek pieces bolted through the posts and then trough the beams above the posts against twisting. This header supports the outboard ends of my 2x4 "W" roof trusses 18" in from the eave. The trusses are 24" apart OC The roof is Steel on a 5 pitch slope. Snow load here maxes out at 50 Lbs per square foot, but the snow usually slides off several times per winter and hits the ground 12 feet below with a great thundering impact that makes the ground shake. I think that snow must weigh in at 12 tons or more. That laminated beam is a heck of a lot stronger that it looks, apparently, but I think it needs to be protected from the weather, hence the aluminum sheathing, plus I hate painting the trim on a ladder.

I am not an engineer. If I was, I would probably have specified a steel I beam. The carpenter disagreed with steel beams resting on wooden posts, because long steel beams have issues with thermal expansion, making the post and beam joint questionable over time. FWIW, he may have a point there. A 16-foot steel beam will expand and contract 5" over its length, he said. He made me a believer.

The devil is in the details,,and how you select and match up the planks, plus the glue and the nailing pattern.. WITH ARDOX nails. As you know they cannot be pulled out, even with a big wrecking bar.

The best argument is cost. The laminated beam cost 50 bucks for materials.. a 16'x 5" Mild steel I beam would cost about 800 bucks, from a scrap yard, if you could find one...and steel will bend and deflect over such a span anyways.

I have seen no deflection from tremendous roof snow weight for over ten years now, nor twisting torsion. I did choose the planks very carefully to be free of knots and adverse grain and arranged them with the assembly of the wood crowning up, and so that the opposing grain of the planks were not running coincidently parallel to one another and free of sap wood. I also ensured that the ends of the laminated beams were absolutely squared to the ends of the supporting posts so that there was no torsion introduced at the point where the beams rested on the posts. I drilled long 1/4 inch diameter holes at about a 30 degree angle to the vertical plane and placed 18" long galvanized lag screws into the the posts and beam ends inboard of the cheek pieces as a hedge against slipping of the beams off of the 4x4 PT support posts. The support posts are also sheathed with PVC siding clamshells.

The whole structure looks pleasing, too There are no interposing support posts to interfere with the view from my porch. Just how it should be.

This was done for me by a licensed carpenter. He said that the beam would support a ten-ton total span weight. He was correct, the beam is solid even with a snow load of three feet of frozen ice and snow on the roof at the eave.

I boxed-sheathed the laminated beam against the weather with aluminum metal..all in one length..and the metal sheathing does not deflect under the worst load. That beam is stronger than the headers for the stud wall beyond it, (doubled 2x6 on edge) supported on 16" centers by the stud wall.

 

[/pine]

Suit yourself. Incorporating a steel I beam inside a wood wall, creates its own problems. i.e. You can't attach it directly, or attach anything to it, without drilling holes in it. Which is a lot of work.

:thumbsup:
That's why steel flitch plates are more common...you can get them pre-drilled...

 

[LD1]

Take this a few at a time here....I do appreciate all the responses so far.

Suit yourself. Incorporating a steel I beam inside a wood wall, creates its own problems. i.e. You can't attach it directly, or attach anything to it, without drilling holes in it. Which is a lot of work.

Yes. An I beam creates other hurdles. And I certainly don't want to use a steel beam. But would rather deal with the hurdles vs spending similar money on an lvl. Cause this is in an unconditioned barn. And I still am skeptical of how an lvl will hold up over time. The just haven't been around long enough.

millions and millions of houses have 16 foot garage door openings all over the country and where built with two 2x12. Some with plywood, others with a 2x4 under them. While I don't know how many of them have to hold 6,000 pounds at the middle of their span, I do know that it's pretty rare for a header over a garage to have any issues.

Speaking of 6,000 pounds, where did that number come from?

Eddie

Most of the garage doors I "think" you are talking about is on the gable ends. Whereas the truss carries the roof load to the end walls.

On an eave end, all the snow load is on the header. Also a residential garage typically has closer spaced trusses, and shorter span. IE: on a 30' residential garage, wit 1' overhang and 2'oc trusses, each truss is carrying 32 sq ft of the roofs load. @30 PSF, that is 960# evenly every 2' on the header.

In my case, with a 40' building and 1' overhang and 8'oc trusses, each truss carries 168 sq ft of the roofs load. @30psf, that's a tad over 5000#. I added 1000# for a safety factor. Thus the midpoint load of 6k. And a triple 2x12 beam would sag a few inches under that weight.(I figured it but don't remember the exact deflection)

 

[LD1]

Jix: your post is too long to quote and edit on my phone.

But what do your trusses span? The header has to carry 1/2 of the span plus overhang. Remember, my building will be 40'. With the overhang, I have to suppore 21' of the roof. Your trusses are also 24" centers which also help reduce the beam size as the loading is more uniform.

I also have a very hard time believing that a 16' beam will expanded 5" in length. Maybe 0.5" I would believe, but not 5.

And I don't know what prices are up your way, but a w10x22 beam @16 ' would cost Mme about $200

 

[LD1]

Again, would like to avoid steel or engineered stuff. I have 24" of depth to work with. Certainly an all lumber beam would work. Even if I had to stack them vertically like I mention and ty together with plywood?