1020 will not crank

[AllWaysBreakinSomething]

I no longer have an easy way to move the presents that the horses leave lying around and don't know exactly the issue with the 1020 tractor .

Basically my 1020 3 cylinder diesel will not crank. Turns over seems to hit on one cylinder (would not swear to it). What I have checked:

Cleaned water seperator
Checked fuel flow at injector (seems really slow, how much should I see?)
Glow plugs all have voltage going to them during heating
Glow plugs when disconnected all have low ohm reading (2-3 ohms I think)

The starter may be turning too slow not sure. How do I check the starter?
Any data on checking the Stator and Armature resistance (ohms)?

My last resort was to test a little Ether but seems to choke it from turning over. (Another reason I suspect starter)

I would just go buy one and try but whoa!! the price is like nuts.

 

[scott_vt]

Afternoon AWBS,
Just curious whats the status of your battery ? Do you have a battery tester ?

 

[AllWaysBreakinSomething]

I tried charging the existing one and tried the battery out of my F350. Same speed turning over. It's fast enough to keep the engine turning over without stopping. Not sure if it's fast enough to start.

 

[scott_vt]

Did you purge all the air from the system after cleaning seperator and checking injector lines ?

BTW Have you checxked the oil level in your injector pump ?

 

[AllWaysBreakinSomething]

I thought of purging the air and did this by loosening each nut at the injector and turning the engine over until I saw a low amount of diesel come out around the compression fitting.

Now the oil in the injector pump I have not checked. I will also check that as well. Any other idea's. Why would Ether not get it to at least jump start for a second. I really don't like doing this but helps rule out what is wrong.

 

[lambs]

Hey Always, a few ideas for you.

I wouldn't advise using ether under any conditions. If it's like my 1010, the glowplugs will be lit under cranking. Injecting ether at that point is a really bad idea from what I've read in my service manual. You could end up replacing all glow plugs at that point.

When you bleed the lines, make sure there are no air bubbles coming out. You need to bleed them until there is no air at all in the system. I don't recall whether you indicated you had done any work on the fuel system before it stopped starting. If so, air may be the issue.

You might want to try replacing all the diesel with fresh fuel, then bleeding again. You may have bad fuel.

I think slow cranking could definitely be the problem. Although in my experience, slow cranking is a function of trying to start in cold weather, in which case a cold engine block is a problem too. I keep a battery tender on my 1010. About $18 at WalMart. My battery is rated at 495 CCA, and in my opinion it's nowhere near enough. You probably need more than that.

In warm weather (I'm in Raleigh), I need about 15 seconds of glow to preheat, then I open the throttle halfway and crank it up. I've read posts on the CTOA communities that indicated they crank Jinma tractors with the throttle shut off to build up oil pressure, then open the throttle and crank again. That does not work well with my 1010, particularly when it's cold. It slows the cranking even more and just uses even more battery power.

I checked my glowplugs with a battery charger. They didn't glow at all for about 10 seconds, then got very hot very fast. I think it takes a few seconds for the resistance to build up to the point that they glow. The learning here is that you get little heat for the first 10 seconds. After that, I think you get somewhere between 1800 and 2000 degrees F. I can tell you more about how I did this if you wish, but I made really sure I wasn't touching them when I applied current..

You should be able to pull the starter and have it checked at a reputable shop that can rebuild it if necessary.

You may be able to eliminate the starter as a problem by pull starting the tractor in a very low gear. This is dangerous of course. I don't think I'd try it unless you have the manual transmission.

Good luck.

 

[2310 guy]

First you want to load test the battery and starter draw test on the starter. Also check the connects so they are tight and cleans.

Don't use ether.

 

[AllWaysBreakinSomething]

Thanks for the info. I'm glad I only tried the Ether once then.

Also I have been trying to turn over the tractor with the battery charged and my F350 connected with really good jumper cables. Doesn't change anything.

I did add some new fuel just before it stopped cranking but I put some of the same fuel in my MF165 with no problem. I started suspecting the fuel system after the cranking problem. Is it better to unscrew the compression fitting at the injector all the way when bleeding and then tighten? I have to almost totally unscrew to see any injector fuel. I assume there is very very little flow there as that is what I see.

My MF1020 is always a slow cranker. My MF165 cranks immediately regardless of how cold. I wish it was the same system. I have to give mid throttle and 15-30 seconds of glow plug has been my experience. Anything less than 10 seconds was a waste of battery power for me as well.

I can try pull starting as I have the manual transmission. I'll let you know how it goes. I'll have to get some help on this one. I assume 1st gear midrange is the appropriate gear?

 

[lambs]

When I bled the 1010, gravity did the job and I didn't need to bleed at the injectors, so I'm not sure what you would see on your 1020. I think I bled it from the top of the fuel filter housing somewhere after changing the filter. I doubt there would be much fuel flow from the injectors unless you were trying to crank the engine. I would think the fuel at that point would be under less pressure from the tank.

I've never tried to pull start mine, but I'd use a low gear and use the 165 to pull it. Make sure you aren't over revving the 1020. I'd think 1500 to 2000 rpm should be about right. Since you wouldn't be cranking with the starter, you won't have any glowplug, so you might want to give it 30 seconds or so before you start pulling it. If it's a nice warm day, they're probably not necessary.

Even if you added fresh fuel, you could have water in your tank that's preventing it from starting. If your tank wasn't filled during the winter, condensation inside the tank can build up. You might want to think about draining the entire fuel system, cleaning out the sediment bowl, changing the filter, and bleeding it again. But if it pull starts and runs, this would be a moot point. Let us know what you find out.

 

[AllWaysBreakinSomething]

OK Heres an update and thanks for the info.

I tried to pull start but this didn't work so well. Mostly just dragged the tires. I tried several gears but just couldn't get the engine to turn over enough. I also tried heating the glow plugs before engaging clutch. Even tried pavement.

I went back to the fuel system. I noticed what you mentioned "lambs". The fuel is gravity fed to the input of the injector pump. I turned over the motor a few times with the injector lines disconnected at the injector. One of them has no flow. The others are really really slow. I don't know anything about injector pumps so I don't know if this is normal. I just know they don't pump much fuel at a time.

I still don't think the motor is turning over as fast as it use to but this could be because it's not hitting on any cylinder.

Could the injector itself be bad enough not to crank. How do I check those?

 

[lambs]

I think you need help beyond my ability, but my opinion is that if you're cranking the engine and the injector pump is working properly, you should be getting fuel at all 3 injectors. Something could just be stopped up. Or you could have an injector pump issue.

I recommend you get an I&T manual for the 1020 and see if it offers any help. They are not very expensive. I do not know how similar the 1020 is to my 1010, but I'll check my manuals and see if there are any easy to follow troubleshooting ideas in it.

 

[lambs]

Hey Always,
The I&T manual for the 1010 covers the 1020 as well. I imagine the engines are very similar. The fuel injection section looks pretty complicated, enough so that I would never try trouble shooting beyond bleeding the system and changing the oil in the pump. It does indicate that the pressure from the injectors themselves is high enough to inject diesel into your skin.

I think you indicated you are not getting fuel through all three injector lines. If not, I'd get the tractor to a dealer.

But the I&T manual is commonly available new on the internet for only a few bucks, so if you want to check it out, you can.

Good luck with it.

 

[AllWaysBreakinSomething]

Lambs thanks for the info

I'm going to start by getting a new started and rule that out. I had a old timer come by and he said it was turning over way too slow. I found one on ebay for $200 at the door. Much better than the $400 from Massey dealer. I'll get it tomorrow.

The old timer also said the injector pump may not be pumping right at that slow of a speed. Especially if your trying to prime it. He may have something there. So I'll see how my $200 investment helps tomorrow and check thoses injector lines again.

 

[scott_vt]

Afternoon ABS,
I have been following along and am also curious to see if additional turning over speed will solve the problem. I assume you have checked all your cables for good solid contact and conections ?

 

[AllWaysBreakinSomething]

Scott_vt, I suspected the cables at first and cleaned the cable and battery ends. After running the battery dead trying different things I connected to my truck and to a freshly charged battery. No change in speed at all even with all this cranking amps available. I'm just as curious as you on this. I sure hope I didn't waste money on the starter. I will although go back and check my cable ground to chassis if the new starter doesn't fix the slow turnover problem.

My weeds are out of control in the garden and need to till.. Peanuts are hard to harvest if you have weeds and grass in them.

The old 20" tiller hopefully isn't my only choice. I'll be dead before I finish all those peanuts.

 

[HTWT]

The 1020 has a mechamical fuel shut off. Make sure it is open.

 

[lambs]

Let us know how the starter works out. On the 1010, I've noticed the battery needs to be fully charged, especially if it's cold, as we noted earlier in the thread. But mine seems to spin fast enough if the battery is hot. I think my battery is rated at 495 CCA.

I don't know about your 1020, but my 1010 actually has a generator on it. And it takes a lot of running to recharge the battery after starting. There are people around who can replace it with an alternator, although I haven't tried that yet. I don't run mine enough to justify the expense. But if the generator ever gives up, I'll convert it. In the meantime, every time I park it, the battery tender gets hooked back up. I might try a marine battery at some point.

 

[JerryG]

Sometimes the cables will corrode inside where you can't see it unless they are cut open. If you haven't already ordered or received your starter, you might see if you have a local rebuilder. We have one here that usually does a rebuild for $50 or a little more if more parts are needed.

 

[tractorshawn]

hey guys I have a 1010 and I also have had troubles with it the last few weeks, rebuilt mower deck, rebuilt starter, rebuilt injector pump, and rebuilt injectors, im just in the proccess of puting it all back together, I hope it starts, If it doesnt. Im thinking that the cyl compression is bad, I hope not. Worst case you and I could take the two tractors and make one good one with the extra parts we could make art to sell. I hope your luck is better than mine.Let me know interested to know how you make out.

 

[AllWaysBreakinSomething]

An update is I have succeeded in getting the 1020 to crank . The solution was the starter (never seen it spin so fast). I think this has been my slow cranking problem for a long time. It was confusing since it did spin decently fast.

I did however learn something from the bleeding process. Bleeding the injectors worked best for me by completely opening the lines and pulling them back enought to see diesel when turned over. Just backing off the nuts at the injector lines did not work at first. However once you get a good flow with them completely off then turn over a few times with them backed off. It takes a few turn-overs and a few minutes to get things smoothed out.

Lambs-- you may want to check out your starter as well as mine starts very easily now on the same size battery you have.
I also had an issue with the charging system some time back and turned out to be the regulator (that part is $$$, $120). The generator only puts out about 7 amps on my 1020 so that's why you can't charge it very fast.

JerryG- Does that $50 rebuild include winding the stator and armature? One of those was my problem - I paid $200 and includes 1 yr warranty

Thanks guys for your help . It gave me confidence to keep at it. Otherwise it would have been at the shop and most likely more $$ later.

I feel obligated now to send you guys some photos of the grading I accomplished this weekend on my horse barn project. I'll get them this afternoon and post tomorrow. (I promised some other people I'd post them as well, I'll start a new thread and post the link here)