05 CK30 running fine, quits, now won't start

[cmisavage]

A week ago, my CK 30 quit completely while driving down my driveway to get some firewood. No lights at all at first from dash, seemingly completely dead. I cleaned the battery connections, tested (12.5 at battery and starter) but still nothing. Checked that big fuse near the starter, looks perfect. Changed the ignition switch that I have been dealing with for 2 years, nothing. While checking the connections of that, I hear a faint ticking from behind dash. Lights on dash faintly working. Chase down to relay on "driver's side" and have those coming on Monday.

With confidence waining, and if this doesn't fix it, I'm going to starter selinoid... I guess. I have read the lengthy threads on the this topic and it seems a goose chase to find the problem. The big difference is the tractor was running great and quit like someone pulled a plug. Does this lead anybody to some other conclusions on what the issue may be?

All thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

[k0ua]

When you checked the battery voltage by placing your voltmeter probes directly on the battery posts, and had your assistant attempt to start the tractor, what did the voltage read during the start attempt? Just because a battery read 12.5 volts without a load on it does not mean it is a "good" battery.

Another quick check is to turn on the lights and take a reading. This of course can be done without the assistant. The idea here is to put a load on the battery and connections to observe what the voltage drops will be.

You have a high resistance to electrical current flow. By definition this is your problem. Just where that high resistance is located is the question. We don't know for sure until you do the above test that the high resistance is not located inside your battery. A battery with a high internal resistance can read a perfectly normal voltage with no load on it. We call these types of batteries "bad" batteries.

Battery cable failure in the form of a high resistance due to internal corrosion you cannot see, is a well know problem with tractors.

Remember a wire must be "shorted" for it to work correctly. When a wire turns into a high value resistor, it ceases to function as intended. The resistance of a good battery cable should be 0 ohms. The voltage drop due to resistance should be near 0 volts. Of course there is always some small near zero ohms of resistance in a good cable, and there fore some small voltage drop when large currents are drawn thru the cable, but these small values are negligible.

 

[cmisavage]

Thanks for more info, k0ua. I am not a mechanic but am willing and the explanation you gave was helpful.

I did the voltmeter testing and got 12.5 pre-key, 12.38 at initial key turn but, keeping key turned, reading ticked down like a clock. I took the battery all the way out and found more signs of corrosion under the angle metal holding it down. No matter what, I'm going to replace the battery.

BUT, I decided to try another battery from my car to see what would happen. I got it hooked up with good connections and upon key turn, things looked GREAT. I get lights, both signal and flashers. I turned the key and I got full dash lights, waited for glow plug light, turned the key with high hopes and I got the one loud-ish click and nothing again. I turn the key again, and I get ticking seemingly behind dash (left knee area, appears to be another relay there). I turn key off again, then back, and I get the buzzing relay again but no ticking. More tries and only the buzzing relay.

I tried jumping from my car and nothing new, just the buzz.

So, at this point I'm going with a new battery, relays and going over the connections AGAIN (3rd time).

Again, thanks for all thoughts. The goose I'm chasing is bobbing and weaving, but I'll get it sooner or later!

 

[k0ua]

Thanks for more info, k0ua. I am not a mechanic but am willing and the explanation you gave was helpful.

I did the voltmeter testing and got 12.5 pre-key, 12.38 at initial key turn but, keeping key turned, reading ticked down like a clock. I took the battery all the way out and found more signs of corrosion under the angle metal holding it down. No matter what, I'm going to replace the battery.

BUT, I decided to try another battery from my car to see what would happen. I got it hooked up with good connections and upon key turn, things looked GREAT. I get lights, both signal and flashers. I turned the key and I got full dash lights, waited for glow plug light, turned the key with high hopes and I got the one loud-ish click and nothing again. I turn the key again, and I get ticking seemingly behind dash (left knee area, appears to be another relay there). I turn key off again, then back, and I get the buzzing relay again but no ticking. More tries and only the buzzing relay.

I tried jumping from my car and nothing new, just the buzz.

So, at this point I'm going with a new battery, relays and going over the connections AGAIN (3rd time).

Again, thanks for all thoughts. The goose I'm chasing is bobbing and weaving, but I'll get it sooner or later!

I can't fathom what the ticking sound is, But start relay's contacts could be burned (high resistance). Those are available at auto parts stores, you don't have to use the Kioti OEM relay. The fact that the voltage did not plummet when you turned the key, tells us what you already know, it aint the battery. So still bad connections or bad parts (like relay). One posibility for a buzzing relay is that the relay coil voltage is so low it will not pull in and stay pulled in. This can help "burn" the contacts also.

 

[vanguard]

I had a bad relay just the other day.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/345822-my-tractor-wont-start-i.html

In my case I was able to feel which one was bad by putting my finger on them while my assistant turned the key. It was pretty obvious which one was clicking. I brought it to auto zone and after a few minutes they found one that was nearly a match. It mounted backwards but its not an issue because you can just turn the wire around as it plugs in.

Anyway, if you're thinking it might be a relay put your finger on it while turning the key to identify it and take it to your local auto parts store. You might be 1 hour away from getting it going again.

 

[ritcheyvs]

I'm thinking the problem is the battery cables or maybe the main chassis ground connection. If I understand the initial symptoms, the tractor was running fine when it suddenly stopped and everything electrical (like dash lights) seemed dead but actually (after moving the battery cables to clean the battery connections) the dash lights did glow faintly and a relay (probably the glow relay) chattered. The chattering relay is a typical symptom of a high-resistance battery feed. All this would make sense if the tractor had the new style stop solenoid (which requires power for the engine to run) and the main feed from the battery was interrupted (high resistance connection).

For the OP, before you waste time and ca$h on more random parts swapping, check the battery cables by bypassing the cables (one at a time) with a GOOD QUALITY jumper cable (one from battery negative to a good chassis ground and another from battery positive to the big terminal on the starter solenoid). These cable failures can be invisible (inside the plastic jacket) and moving the cable (e.g., to swap batteries) can temporarily restore a marginal connection that "blew" as soon as the starter tried to crank (high current).

 

[lakngulf]

Hope you get it going and new strong battery is the ticket. I have an 06 that I bought in 09. Over the last couple of years I would turn on key and get a click click click and then the glow plugs would come on. Sometimes click couple of times, sometimes many more but would eventually get to the orange glow. Once glow light was out the tractor would crank.

Fast forward to a couple months ago. I had not been on the tractor for a good while. Turned on key and NOTHING. Tried charging battery, got a little but not much power. Thought that ten years was a lot for a tractor battery, took out old, bought replacement with as much cranking power as I could, and has worked fine since. Here's hoping that continues.

 

[Gil Case]

I am confused, the machine was running down the driveway and stopped. How could that be the battery, once it is running you can disconnect the battery and it would still run? I thought that a diesel would continue to run without any electrical input until it runs out of fuel. Don't you have to stop the fuel flow to stop a diesel?
Obviously I am not a mechanic of any sort, just curious.

 

[TJP89]

I am confused, the machine was running down the driveway and stopped. How could that be the battery, once it is running you can disconnect the battery and it would still run? I thought that a diesel would continue to run without any electrical input until it runs out of fuel. Don't you have to stop the fuel flow to stop a diesel?
Obviously I am not a mechanic of any sort, just curious.

Not a mechanic myself, but from my understanding, there is an electrically controlled switch that cuts the fuel feed, that's how you usually turn the switch. If power needs to be applied for the switch to allow fuel to flow, a power loss would cut the fuel flow. Even if that's not how it works, there is obviously some electrical issue that needs to be solved before any possible fuel issues are looked into.

 

[Coyote machine]

As already stated, the battery is NOT defective, and has been proven by jumping from another battery in the OP's car, AND he has already replaced the battery with a different one with no change in outcome, even after putting a jump charge on it too.
One needs to be methodical in the tracking of issues like this one. A visual check of the big fuse near the starter is not enough. All electrical paths must be verified by using a meter. The fuse box needs a through inspection, (including testing each fuse with a meter and making sure the box pins have no corrosion where the fuses contact them), as does all wiring and relays going through the ignition and start/crank circuits. Voltage readings, as stated too, need to be verified as to any abnormal drop while cranking, if the engine will crank. Cables and connections at the battery, starter, and starter solenoid must be clean and tight, and no battery cable internal corrosion.
Relays can be marginal with burnt contacts, corrosion. etc. present. Chassis ground must be shiny metal and tight/clean. Starter and it's solenoid also need clean tight connections. The fuel stop solenoid must be functional and not hindering fuel delivery once the starter cranks the engine.
Go back to square one and check everything again. Replacement of the battery may make you feel like you're making progress, but it's not necessary at this point.
Report back all results.