How Would You Fix This Bridge?

[paulsharvey]

Ok, so im not always goverments biggest fan, and the red tape and all; But, that bridge to the island south of Tampa; those bridges in North Carolina, ect; after hurricanes; work began within Hours to reopen through emergency contracts. When the manure hits the fan, things are reopened quickly, and the "retro active permits" ect happen later. A1A got washed away during Ian (i think it was Ian, but maybe Nicole); we worked late the Day of the hit, and had a drivable surface open by 2am. Not "fixed" but drivable. Yes, now 2.5 years later, the "permanent" fix is being done; but within less than 18 hours Drivable; within 90 days, paved, stripped, and repaired; within 2.5 years, start the "permanent fix". So, we started work on the repair as soon as winds dropped below 45mph; and just for perspective, we still had gusts approaching tropical storm strength, and rain as we packed up with the road open.

 

[bdhsfz6]

On what basis was it thrown out? Is there a different Judge now?

Out of curiosity I asked ChatGPT about this. Bottom line is, depending on the Deeds, it appears this should be a Shared Cost.

if a deeded private bridge fails who is responsible for repairs in Pennsylvania

In Pennsylvania, responsibility for a deeded private bridge isn’t handled by one simple rule—it depends heavily on ownership, the deed language, and any agreements. But there are clear legal principles that usually apply:

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1. Default rule: the owner (or benefiting owners) pays​

Pennsylvania law treats private infrastructure (like private roads—and by extension bridges serving them) as the responsibility of the property owners who benefit from or own it.

• State law says a private road must be “kept in repair… at the expense of the property owner… and heirs and assigns”
• If multiple properties use it, each user shares costs proportionally

A private bridge that is part of that access generally follows the same logic:

• If it serves your parcel → you (or all users) are responsible
• If multiple parcels rely on it → costs are shared

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2. The deed or easement can override everything​

The most important document is your deed (and any easement/maintenance agreement).
It may:

• Assign sole responsibility to one property owner
• Require shared maintenance among multiple properties
• Put responsibility on an HOA or private association
• Be silent (in which case default shared-use rules apply)

Courts in PA will look first at what the deed actually says.

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3. Government usually is NOT responsible​

• The state or township is only responsible for public bridges/roads
• If it’s truly private/deeded, PennDOT or the municipality typically has no duty to repair it

Exception:

• If the bridge is later accepted as a public bridge, then a county/municipality may take over costs

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4. If the bridge fails​

If a deeded private bridge collapses or becomes unsafe:

• Responsible party = whoever owns or is assigned maintenance in the deed/easement
• If shared access: all benefiting owners may be legally obligated to contribute
• Any owner can potentially sue others to force contribution if they refuse

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Bottom line​

• ✔ Private bridge → not the government’s problem
• ✔ Responsibility usually falls on:
  • The owner, OR
  • All properties that rely on it
• ✔ The deed/easement language controls if it says anything specific

---

If you want a precise answer​

These situations can get very fact-specific. If you want, you can paste:

• The deed language, or
• Describe who uses the bridge

…and I can help you interpret who likely pays in your exact situation.

Thank you for digging up all this information.

All I know is, two lawyers and two judges have told us over the years that the maintenance clause, as written in the deeds, is not enforceable in a court of law. I don't know why. We were told the only recourse we have is to sue the individual property owners. Filing such a lawsuit(s) would likely take years and cost more in legal fees than it would to replace the bridge.

The problem is more complex because the bridge is located on a ROW through property not part of, or owned by anyone in the subdivision. That ROW is vaguely mentioned in the deed for that land and no provision was made regarding maintenance.

 

[bdhsfz6]

OP: It may be worth PM'ing your address to someone working in this field, like @paulsharvey, or to an ambitious searcher like @EarPlug, to see what specifics they can dig up in your or neighboring deeds. Not that I mean to sign them up for extra work, but they might be able to figure an angle on this that you have not.

Is your county one of the few in PA who hosts all deeds online? Mine does, which can be enormously helpful in situations like this.

That was my purpose in creating this thread. I've already learned a great deal from the posters who responded and I want to thank everyone who contributed.

Unfortunately, our rural county does not subscribe to an online deed service. All searches have to be done in person at the courthouse.

 

[BigBlue1]

Down here in my part of the world; many subdivisions where platted in the 1970s; with virtually no regulation, and now, they exist, but are only now starting to build out. The original developer platted, subdivided, and sold the properties; and closed down. with zero throught to the future, and the local goverment agencies just didnt do anything. Leaving "orphan" roads, easements, deed restrictions, ect.

Large, Large subdivision, Interlachen Lake Estates, literally Thousands of parcels, are like 50x110 ft lots, some smaller; that can't legally build a single family home (meeting well-septic separation, property line set backs, ect), and the roads, although platted, and given to the county as right of way, dont exist.

50x110 foot lots? 1/8 of a acre? FFS. That's ridiculous. What was the intent, a mobile home park?

 

[paulsharvey]

50x110 foot lots? 1/8 of a acre? FFS. That's ridiculous. What was the intent, a mobile home park?

Yeah, largely. I've seen lots foe sale, like in the last few years, 0.08 acres; $1300. Many now are owned by Chinese or UAE investment firms.

0.08 acres; thats roughly 3500 square feet... completely unbuildable. Frankly, a liability to it's owner, not an asset; unless you own the neighboring parcels. To the point that people dont even pay their $48/year taxes, and the county takes them, and can't even sell them for the money owed in taxes.

Maybe im being harse; the intent was to sell as many "Florida homesites", through magazines, and group sell conferences, to as many out of state buyers as possible.

 

[airbiscuit]

After 245 posts, it strikes me that bdhsfz6 has a pretty good handle on things. It's a sticky wicket. Your neighbors are lucky you've kept things upright all these years.

 

[Highlandr]

50x110 foot lots? 1/8 of a acre? FFS. That's ridiculous. What was the intent, a mobile home park?

Subdivision going in a nearby town. Most lots .1 acre. All stick-built, slab houses.

Ocean front lots and 1-3 rows back down at the coast are bigger than this.

 

[chim]

50x110 foot lots? 1/8 of a acre? FFS. That's ridiculous. What was the intent, a mobile home park

Years ago there was a story about an enterprising individual attempting to subdivide a lot in in this nearby town into 6" square pieces and market them as gag gifts. He didn't get too far IIRC.

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[BigBlue1]

Subdivision going in a nearby town. Most lots .1 acre. All stick-built, slab houses.

Ocean front lots and 1-3 rows back down at the coast are bigger than this.

View attachment 5486242

That's insane. So glad most communities around here have minimum lot sizes around 12,000 or 15,000 sq ft. The above is what happens when communities let developers do whatever they want, and what they want is to maximize profits, not to build quality neighborhoods.

 

[paulsharvey]

The local goverment, County down here, should be preventing ridiculous, unbuildable lots, orphaned roads, ect as part of Development review. They, and the citizens, are stuck with the BS left over once the original parties go under.

Its also a fine line, hard to walk; as they might look at adding a 2nd or 3rd home, for an elderly family member, as the same as a subdivision.

But thats probably better suited to the Real Estate thread, or if anyone ever starts a rural politics or infrastructure thread; which ive considered, and decided to Not

Edit: I know any rural politics thread, no matter how well intended, would go national/international, crazy, within 5 posts. Its like Welder Brands, or Blue vs Red vs Orange vs Green tractors.

 

[fishin coyote]

That was my purpose in creating this thread. I've already learned a great deal from the posters who responded and I want to thank everyone who contributed.

Unfortunately, our rural county does not subscribe to an online deed service. All searches have to be done in person at the courthouse.

Which county?

 

[WinterDeere]

That's insane. So glad most communities around here have minimum lot sizes around 12,000 or 15,000 sq ft. The above is what happens when communities let developers do whatever they want, and what they want is to maximize profits, not to build quality neighborhoods.

Note he said "Ocean front". I'd never want to live in anything like that, on any permanent basis. But tiny lots for vacation houses on space-limited coastal islands are common and more acceptable, given there's only so much coast to be had.

I've spent more than half the summers of my life renting houses on Long Beach Island in NJ, where 1/8 acre is probably the common bay-front lot size. I usually check the Zestimate on these houses, just out of curiousity, and $2M - $5M is the typical range.

 

[Highlandr]

Note he said "Ocean front".

The lots in the screen shot are in a new subdivision in Salisbury, NC. I said ocean front lots at the coast are bigger than that.

 

[Jstpssng]

. the easement will be forced by the county. Done.

Are you sure? Laws vary by state, but up here if your property is landlocked you are at the whim of an abutter to get access. Furthermore they do have access; it's the landowner's responsibility to maintain it.
The only way that the law would get involved is to ensure the culvert is cleaned out of the stream, assuming that it's a fish passage.

 

[paulsharvey]

Are you sure? Laws vary by state, but up here if your property is landlocked you are at the whim of an abutter to get access. Furthermore they do have access; it's the landowner's responsibility to maintain it.
The only way that the law would get involved is to ensure the culvert is cleaned out of the stream, assuming that it's a fish passage.

Down here, if a new crossing was denied, you would have a judge enforce an easement to reprovide access. Thats not free, the the judge will rule the other person must provide, at fair market value, an easement, if the other property is land locked. So, no, not one single thing about that is free. And the construction of a roadway on that easement would be solely the responsibility of the easement holder, nit the landowner.

I highly highly doubt DEP would refuse to repermit the existing crossing. But short reading implies they might force township to take it, or a proper road authority, even if private, with legal responsibility and ability to maintain.

Also, I dont see a catastrophic collapse and wasted away crossing short of a FEMA even, and the township, DEP, or county would likely be eligible for FEMA reimbursement to repair/replace

 

[paulsharvey]

Sorry, ive been really long winded on this topic.

But, ill give you an example, of how a catastrophic collapse in storm would go down in FLa. You/homeowners will call 911, and fire department will block the road, and ensure noone is in Immediate threat of life/safety. They will put the collapse/road closure into the EOC, and the local entity will get assigned the issue. Once higher priority roads, evacuation (and return) routes are opened, they will show up (this is likely day 3-7 or so, as waters are starting to go down). They will First get some measurements for FEMA reimbursement, then Breifly clean the gap, and place 2-48" HDPE pipes, about 32 feet long in, and dump 8-12 loads of debris/fill/millings over them, to get an open passage to emergency services/utility crews, and also residents.
Once they have secured funds from FEMA, they fill get a permit from DEP (likely under emergency measures, or maybe "self certification", and construct the proper crossing; bank and shore protection, ect. That proper crossing will be constructed by an actual contractor, with actual contract, pay items, specs, ect; like administered by the state or county, and possibly months later, maybe years later; likely as a single location in a multiple damage contract; BUT the residents are not trapped for months or years.

So; if Penn works like FLa, your emergency supplies, food, water, meds, pet/animal supplies, and/or generator fuel, should be planned to sustain you with limited contact for a worse worst case scenario then most people; likely 21 days, vs 3 or 5 days for most folks. Shouldnt be out of touch for 21 days, but if its bad for you, its probably bad in your entire region, and things take time, and 14 properties arent priority over a major road.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Sorry, ive been really long winded on this topic.

But, ill give you an example, of how a catastrophic collapse in storm would go down in FLa. You/homeowners will call 911, and fire department will block the road, and ensure noone is in Immediate threat of life/safety. They will put the collapse/road closure into the EOC, and the local entity will get assigned the issue. Once higher priority roads, evacuation (and return) routes are opened, they will show up (this is likely day 3-7 or so, as waters are starting to go down). They will First get some measurements for FEMA reimbursement, then Breifly clean the gap, and place 2-48" HDPE pipes, about 32 feet long in, and dump 8-12 loads of debris/fill/millings over them, to get an open passage to emergency services/utility crews, and also residents.
Once they have secured funds from FEMA, they fill get a permit from DEP (likely under emergency measures, or maybe "self certification", and construct the proper crossing; bank and shore protection, ect. That proper crossing will be constructed by an actual contractor, with actual contract, pay items, specs, ect; like administered by the state or county, and possibly months later, maybe years later; likely as a single location in a multiple damage contract; BUT the residents are not trapped for months or years.

So; if Penn works like FLa, your emergency supplies, food, water, meds, pet/animal supplies, and/or generator fuel, should be planned to sustain you with limited contact for a worse worst case scenario then most people; likely 21 days, vs 3 or 5 days for most folks. Shouldnt be out of touch for 21 days, but if its bad for you, its probably bad in your entire region, and things take time, and 14 properties arent priority over a major road.

No apologies necessary for me anyway. I find your lengthy posts informative.

Unfortunately, there is no way to know for sure just what FEMA will provide should there be a catastrophic event. They don't have a good track record, at least around here, for helping small groups of individuals.

The last major event we had here was hurricane Ivan in 2004. Luckily, we weren't seriously affected, but others in the county were, and received no help at all. All the aid went to more populated areas.

With the increase in the number of natural disasters in the last decade or so, it appears FEMA's budget has been stretched pretty thin. Sadly, this doesn't bode well for the little guy.

 

[DGF]

18" waaaaayyyy to small, especially after downpours.

ok, maybe 18" is too small. Go to a 20", 24" or larger. The idea is still applicable and proven. I've done it.

 

[Eagle1]

ok, maybe 18" is too small. Go to a 20", 24" or larger. The idea is still applicable and proven. I've done it.

You did see the pictures that showed a 6 foot culvert being over topped, right?

Recap:

The stream (Navajo Creek) averages around 8' wide and 1 - 2' deep. The flow varies with rainfall. During high water events, the 6' pipe runs full.

I personally have 4 four foot culverts under my road and it still can not handle the flow during extended heavy rains here in the Ozarks

 

[airbiscuit]

Do box culverts handle flow better than culverts (same cross sectional area)?