How Would You Fix This Bridge?

[bdhsfz6]

It's a bad situation and going to get worse. I would get with those that have helped in the past and put together a "Bridge Failure Plan".

Such as: A portable deploy-able pedestrian walkway, a place to park cars and trucks on both sides. Emergency Services route & assistance. Shuttle service(pay at time of use....no free rides).....etc.

If you sit down and think about a bridge out game plan now, you will limit the future chaos quite a bit.

One other thing....have you considered getting the Media involved? Double edged sword and all..........

We've tried to set up meetings with property owners in the past to discuss the bridge. Most didn't show up and those that did weren't interested in doing anything since the bridge was still passable.

Unfortunately, it appears it's going to take a disaster to get these people to do anything.

 

[bdhsfz6]

How many landowners would be affected by a lack of a crossing?

8 full time resident landowners, 3 renters, 3 summer / weekenders, 14 total.

 

[WinterDeere]

8 full time resident landowners, 3 renters, 3 summer / weekenders, 14 total.

Life is a negotiation, there are no "rules". But if this were me, my proposal to the neighbors would be to divide the cost according to our weeks in yearly residence. The full-timers might and probably should pay a higher fraction of the cost, than someone who uses the property one weekend per year, and I'd consider any landlord renting to a full-time resident as a full-timer.

You'll surely get push-back, and maybe the compromise is something other than a perfectly-fractional split, as you're still adding value to the land of someone who never uses the property. But it's a starting point, nonetheless.

 

[paulsharvey]

You need "something" with the legal ability to make a special assessment, sign the contracts, ect, and sieze assets from non payers. As much as no one wants to hear it, an HOA, POA, MSTU, MSBU, public works department, "township", ect.

Everyone hates HOAs, and taxes; until there is a community asset that needs work.

If this is all handled privately; what happens to cost overruns, unforseeable circumstances, force major, acts of god, ect. Great, everyone ponies up their $3500; and the end contract process is actually $85,000 vs initial bid of $50,000. Our OP eats that $35k in contract overun? Nah, not me

 

[bdhsfz6]

That is so true. I live at the end of a 1/2 mile private road. I have good neighbors, but about 1/2 don't have a clue that it needs to be maintained. My neighbor plows the snow on the main drive (I help on occasion), and we take up a collection to pay him. It costs $25 - $35 per property owner for the whole winter no matter how many times he has to plow!

One neighbor who recently purchased a home complained about having to pay $25! She said YOU should have the township plow it. I explained we explored having the township take over the road, but 100% of the property owners have to agree, and not all did. I told her SHE could take a run at that. Failing that, $25 is a pretty reasonable fee for a winter's plowing. She now pays and doesn't complain.

I take a collection every couple of years for gravel. People are pretty good about that now. Every once in a while I procrastinate on grading the road so they realize it doesn't stay in good shape by magic.


BTW, a corollary to your old saying is

Can you do something with your equipment for me - It won't cost you anything.

I envy your neighborhood, and hope it stays that way.

When I bought land here in 1979, ALL the other landowners were young, fit and willing to contribute their time & money to maintain the road & bridge. Over the years, all but 3 properties have changed hands. The new owners are almost all from NY and NJ cities, looking to get away to the "country". Unfortunately, they brought their city attitudes with them. They were used to the town doing all the road work and don't understand why they have to pay for it here.

The 3 remaining original landowners, including me, are now pushing 80 and are on fixed incomes. We love it here and have no desire to leave, but our ability to keep up the maintenance is getting more limited with each passing year.

 

[paulsharvey]

Or, a very insensitive way to look at it; our OP is 80 y/o; he doesnt need a 20 year, or even a 10 year solution; and "affordable" bandaides might be all he needs to keep access for the rest of it being his problem...

Yes, I know that insensitive and all; but its also the truth

 

[bdhsfz6]

My last thought I promise!
From what I looked up railroad track is in 39 ft. sections. Used track isn't all that expensive. So you mark where center of creek is, then mark 20 feet out each side of that mark. You mark center of old track pieces, place them lengthways on center. Form up width of road by 40ft. So 20ft x 40ft x 6" is 15 yards concrete (about $2,000 delivered).
Poured concrete screeded and taper both ends down.
Area could be shaved down a bit, RR track also down a bit before forming. The DEP could care less, you're not disturbing creek.
Rebar, mesh, high psi concrete all the better.
I would think that would carry a lot of weight and last for years, not too bad a job and probably less than $10K total.

At present, we are looking at doing something similar. Still the matter of who will pay for it though.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Or, a very insensitive way to look at it; our OP is 80 y/o; he doesnt need a 20 year, or even a 10 year solution; and "affordable" bandaides might be all he needs to keep access for the rest of it being his problem...

Yes, I know that insensitive and all; but its also the truth

This is absolutely true and no offense taken. It's one of the reasons I'm willing to stay rather than move on.

 

[WinterDeere]

At present, we are looking at doing something similar. Still the matter of who will pay for it though.

Do you have any friends/family who are lawyers in PA? I have to imagine this problem is common enough in this state, that there must be precedence and procedure for dealing with this. I have no idea what that is, but I imagine this must be a very common scenario across much of rural PA.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Do you have any friends/family who are lawyers in PA? I have to imagine this problem is common enough in this state, that there must be precedence and procedure for dealing with this. I have no idea what that is, but I imagine this must be a very common scenario across much of rural PA.

Yes, situations like this are quite common in rural parts of PA. From what I've seen, most are handled the same way we've been doing it with a lot of sweat and begging by a few to benefit the rest.

As I mentioned earlier, one of the residents is a township supervisor. She is friendly with the township attorney, who often gives us pro bono advice. They have looked into various possibilities over the years, but nothing has come of it.

 

[WinterDeere]

I love that our state is so much less "hands on" than some of our neighboring states, and that our taxes are so much lower. But there are times like this, it comes back to bit us in the a$$!

 

[Snobdds]

Put up a camera and live stream the bridge every time it rains. Charge for the pleasure of watching it wash away.

Hopefully you will get enough clicks to pay for a new bridge.

This seems like the best approach to actually bring in some money. Hoe out your bridge...

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

At present, we are looking at doing something similar. Still the matter of who will pay for it though.

Looks like two neighbors are on board. If the three of you go door to door and everyone agrees on a day & time to all meet for about an hour and discuss options, it should work out.

 

[dodge man]

There are stories that give me faith in the human race, yours isn’t one of them. I like to think I’m easy going but like anyone, I can get spiteful. In all seriousness if the thing falls in can you get by for a period of time?

 

[bdhsfz6]

There are stories that give me faith in the human race, yours isn’t one of them. I like to think I’m easy going but like anyone, I can get spiteful. In all seriousness if the thing falls in can you get by for a period of time?

Yes, I can access a township road through my back property with a tractor or ATV. Very hard to get a vehicle through though. It would require cooperation from an adjacent property owner, but that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Looks like two neighbors are on board. If the three of you go door to door and everyone agrees on a day & time to all meet for about an hour and discuss options, it should work out.

It might come to that but you don't know these people. I've never met a more stubborn apathetic group in my life.

For example, I put a nice note with pictures and a copy of the $665 concrete bill for the last repair in the mailboxes of the 14 property owners. I requested $47.50 from each as their fair share, and so far, only one responded.

 

[airbiscuit]

I'm not surprised. I have a friend that has a cabin on a lake - former resort = HOA. Almost all the owners are Citiots. My friend and I do a lot of chainsaw and road maintenance work just because that's what you do. They either don't notice, or are annoyed because they didn't have input (really, input to fill in a pothole?). They second guess everything we do because we're just dumb county folk, but will authorize a contractor to do the same thing for $$$$.

 

[Topzide]

With the access deeded to the properties, there is legal recourse that can be taken. And if the OP takes the challenge of it, his time and expense can be added and spread across the field of owners. Without the access, no one gets to there properties, no emergency services and no packages! It comes down that all parties share the problem and expense! Guess it will take a major failure or as simple as a power line issue where power company isn't able to timely fix do to bridge condition! Hope it works out and can understand you just wanting to "bandaid" it till your final day arrives. Then you can oversee the chaos from above!

 

[Highlandr]

Yes, I can access a township road through my back property with a tractor or ATV. Very hard to get a vehicle through though. It would require cooperation from an adjacent property owner, but that shouldn't be a problem.

Perhaps consider improving that "road" out the back of your property enough that your truck(?) can get out that way if needed. Then keep band-aiding the bridge until its no longer your problem or it washes out completely.

 

[bdhsfz6]

With the access deeded to the properties, there is legal recourse that can be taken.

Our lawyer says this is not true. It has been tried in court twice and the cases were thrown out by the judge.