Foreign Travel?

[ultrarunner]

We were so disappointed in down town SF as to how run down it was and how many homeless wandering the streets, most of the stores by the Palace hotel/Market st. were closed down.
The Palace hotel, which used to be so expensive it was mind boggling, is now cheap and empty. We stayed there and it's an amazing place, that we hope can stay in business.
The pier has become a strip mall and if you take the trolly buses after dark, you better know where to get off.
The parks still look great like the fine arts palace and presidio. But getting out to Muir was very welcome. Even though you have to reserve a spot in advance.
The tourist areas were still full during the day and safe. Same as when you got out of the market st area.
Not having been there in a few years, the difference was striking.

Yes… and not car friendly from smash and grab and high parking fees.

The city lights with the bridges make a wonderful backdrop from my vantage point across the bay…

 

[California]

WeWe were so disappointed in down town SF as to how run down it was and how many homeless wandering the streets, most of the stores by the Palace hotel/Market st. were closed down.

Downtown SF feels like it's dying with all the Market Street flagship stores closing - same as is happening with suburban malls all over the US, as people shift to online shopping.

We avoided Downtown and Market St, aside from changing busses there. (and admiring the odd vintage trolleys). But Chinatown, immediately adjacent, was full of life and crowded with tourists, no change from when I used to ride my BSA over from Berkeley many years ago.

Younger daughter lived in SF a couple of years ago and took us to brunch over in the Mission district, the partly Hispanic restaurant/shopping corridor. Like Chinatown, bustling with activity and cheerful people. She switched to WorkFromHome and now lives in the East Bay an hour away. She says walking from BART across Market to her office in the business district can be unpleasant but she doesn't feel threatened.

For our adventure last month we were mostly on the northern perimeter of the City in tourist areas and didn't see any of the gritty urban problems. That lighthearted video I linked illustrates SF from this perspective.

Getting back to the theme of this thread - the thread started with realistic concerns over safety in traveling to foreign lands. There are people who are told in their news that SF is awful, dangerous,backward, foreign relative to America as they know it, whatever. My posts above are intended as a counter to that perspective. My guest enjoyed her Barbie adventure in San Francisco. Again, see the linked video to see this perspective.

 

[EddieWalker]

You think the stores in SF closed because of online shopping? Not the rampant theft that SF has become famous for? I'm from Hayward. SF has always had its issues, but shopping was never one of them. Everyone loved to take BART there to go shopping!!!!! It wasn't online shopping that stopped them from going there. Crime. Poop. Homeless Crazy People. Drugs. Lack of Law Enforcement. SF is now famous for the city that did every single thing wrong and continues to do so!!!!

 

[California]

You think the stores in SF closed because of online shopping? Not the rampant theft that SF has become famous for? I'm from Hayward. SF has always had its issues, but shopping was never one of them. Everyone loved to take BART there to go shopping!!!!! It wasn't online shopping that stopped them from going there. Crime. Poop. Homeless Crazy People. Drugs. Lack of Law Enforcement. SF is now famous for the city that did every single thing wrong and continues to do so!!!!

Eddie, I drafted those longwinded posts to show the tourist side of SF that is world-class great tourism.

In a day's adventure all over the tourist portion we didn't see a single example of what you, or kenmbz, have experienced there.

I know it's real. My daughter lost the road bike she had ridden cross country from Portland to NYC, out of a locked, shared, storage room inside her apartment complex. She was heartbroken. And she speaks of occasionally having to walk around someone down and unconscious in the business district between BART and her office on Van Ness.

I made the mistake of relying on AAA travel guide to stay in a name-brand motel at about 8th and Market the first time I had a business trip to SF. Bad mistake. It could have been fatal to go out and come back late at night. Next trip, I found a decent motel halfway out Lombard, that became my favorite. Only had two 'experiences' there. One, the TV reception was bad so I switched to a different coax from the wall. This sounded alarms and the manager immediately ran out to the courtyard to see who was stealing a TV. I re-wired it and wasn't identified. Then a year later a big racket down at the ground floor. Looked to be one puta evicting another - loud and a lot of hair pulling. Possibly drug fueled. People came out of their rooms to watch. Aside from these experiences, in business travel to SF occasionally over 20 years, nothing else ever happened. I think one needs big-city street smarts if you venture beyond the tourist areas.

If you say Market St has become too scary for the previous shoppers, I believe you. It's been decades since I went there and it could be sketchy back then.

 

[ultrarunner]

If you don’t like crowds SF is getting better…

I have friends on SF… I doubt they will ever leave but even they said their non SF friends no longer want to come to SF.

This year had a few European visitors stay with me and they used BART to get to SF and had a great time… saw many things and also asked questions such as why so much vacant commercial space and homeless around BART stations…

 

[rontaki]

SF- hoisted on it's own Salesforce tower. SF is trying to be New York, and succeeding in the wrong ways - skyscrapers, dregs on two legs. I used to live across the bay from SF, and didn't really enjoy the slog across the bridge nor the urban decay even then beginning to take over in SF. Flowers wilt, so does flower power.

 

[caver]

I'm dealing with a travel agent for a trip overseas to a distant tropical island. I'm almost to the point of forfeiting my $35 deposit and doing it myself. A friend swears by using chatgpt for a rough idea of cost. The previous conversation was implying the quote they sent me was correct. It wasn't correct per conversation with another office personnel.

 

[kenmbz]

I'm dealing with a travel agent for a trip overseas to a distant tropical island. I'm almost to the point of forfeiting my $35 deposit and doing it myself. A friend swears by using chatgpt for a rough idea of cost. The previous conversation was implying the quote they sent me was correct. It wasn't correct per conversation with another office personnel.

We do all our own planning and then buy local tours.
In one trip we saved $200/night (Polynesia) over a travel agent price and about $5000 for a whole trip (South Africa).
Everything is on line and you can price them yourselves.

The travel agents have to pay themselves and airline ticket fees do not get them very many $ any more.

If you are staying a week or more and don't care about room service, renting an apartment or house can save huge $.

 

[caver]

The agent claims they get their payback from resorts but I have ran loose numbers and can get a better price. Also, for some reason they bumped my travel month in the last go-around to Sept which is entering the pricier time of year. I told them before I don't care if it's the rainy season. I lived on Guam for 15 months so can handle rain.

Back in the late 90's I was still using a local travel agent for flights. She could find better deals that i couldn't find on Expedia. Plus she was good at catching tight connections which could easily become a missed connection when a flight gets delayed.

 

[Quaffer]

the thread started with realistic concerns over safety in traveling to foreign lands. There are people who are told in their news that SF is awful, dangerous,backward, foreign relative to America as they know it, whatever. My posts above are intended as a counter to that perspective.

Great job: