Florescent Lighting Bans?

[Alan W.]

I swapped out our fluorescents for leds in the church buildings. Everyone loves them. I cut out the ballast and wired them straight. No tombstone replacement needed.
A lot of our members wanted to know where to find them and if they came in different lengths and pin configurations. Which they do. I have also seen models for 277 volt.

 

[ultrarunner]

I have several buildings that have multiple types and wattages of fluorescent bulbs. 4', 2' T8 and T5, T8 U-tubes, 2 and 4-pin bulbs in 9, 13, 18, 26W, circline bulbs in T8 and T5... you name it. Plus a bunch of narrow bent tubes in various lengths and wattages. Some of the ballasts for the 2 and 4 pin in the can lights are no longer made. When those fail, we have the entire fixture changed to an LED fixture. This year, they finally asked for a count of all the can lights to do a capital project to replace all of them at once. We also have some dual power ballasts for emergency lighting that are no longer made.

Good luck. I'd suggest developing a capital project to replace them all at once, be it with new ballasts and bulbs or entire fixtures and be done with it. Or.... retire and let someone else deal with it.

One of the 3 presented will be the option.

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

It's not conserving energy that I mind. It's doing unbelievably stupid performative things that purport to conserve energy but actually do way more harm than good. Greenies can never wait for good technology. They have to force change NOW. Hence the obsolete curly bulbs that don't work and fill the earth with mercury, as well as the 20,000-hour LED bulbs that routinely burn out in 500 hours.

If you want to heave, go read about Dubai LED bulbs. These are the only LED bulbs that actually do what the packages say, and you can't have them.

Right now, I have a warehouse tenant complaining, asking me to send an electrician because the lights take a minute to turn on. I wrote back and asked if they had stupid Al Gore bulbs, because changing light bulbs is their problem. Haven't heard a peep since.

 

[ultrarunner]

Each operating room has 72 T8 bulbs configured in 6 bulb fixtures so 2 bulbs or 4 bulbs or all 6 can be on.

I really have zero complaints on the T8 and in 1995 we were the first in the city to get a green energy award and in large part it was due to the lighting…

Maybe a friend in Reno can make a cannonball run to tide me over a couple of years?

 

[Oaktree]

Think of it as cost savings. LEDs are a LOT less expensive to run.

So to be fair, someone has to run the numbers and do an ROI to see how long it will take to recoup your costs VS the electricity you save.

Well, yes and no. As someone mentioned upthread, longevity does not seem to be a high priority in the manufacturing of LED bulbs (of any type, not just fluorescent replacements). Yeah, there's all the hype that they'll last 2 million hours or some such nonsense, but the reality is they fail rather quickly. Some of it may be the cheap power supply components, but the lamps themselves don't seem to last very long either. We have a couple strings of "patio" LED lights (on a string, like clear Christmas lights) around the perimeter of our living room for ambient lighting, the bulbs don't seem to last any longer than the old incandescent ones did.
I love having them in my workshop...really bright, instant on even in cold weather, but if they don't last then there goes any savings in electricity.

 

[grsthegreat]

The sale of Florescent lamps is banned in California for all intent.

I have a hospital full of 4’ T8 overhead lamps which can no longer be sold in California and a few other states.

Instead of paying $2 for GE Florescent Bulbs I’m now paying a little over $6 for replacement GE LED bulbs.

The LEDs marketed as direct replacement but I quickly learned they kill my older ballasts overnight.

Call to GE direct as we have a National GE lighting contract and learned GE has a list of several pages of compatible and non compatible ballasts which is constantly being updated…

The kicker is there appears to be a nationwide ballast shortage now…

The old standard T8 have been industry standard for 30 years… even got a lighting award in 1995 when I installed them new here…

So instead of a $2 lightbulb I am looking a $6 LED bulbs plus ballast replacement for each LED installed.

Get the led replacement lamps that dont use a ballast. Simple to install using existing lamp wiring an bypass ballast to direct one side to 120v the other side to neutral. Ive transformed thousands of fixtures like this over the years. Did 400 fixtures last year. I get it down to 10 minutes a fixture or so. I use the push in connectors to move wires and leave old ballast installed in fixture, just cut wires.
I never have to replace the tombstones. I order led lights to fit

One benifit, the lamps last a long time. I did a state of idaho building 5 years ago and replaced over 500 fixtures. Have not had a single lamp burn out . Was just there last week to repair a fixture that got hit by a forklift. The bulbs still worked afterwards.
Or, come to idaho and buy the old lamps by the boxloads.

 

[dstig1]

Well, yes and no. As someone mentioned upthread, longevity does not seem to be a high priority in the manufacturing of LED bulbs (of any type, not just fluorescent replacements). Yeah, there's all the hype that they'll last 2 million hours or some such nonsense, but the reality is they fail rather quickly. Some of it may be the cheap power supply components,

An EE guy at work that is a major tinkerer says it is cheap capacitors (or counterfeit ones) that are the cause of most all early failures in these. Interesting to know, but it doesn't really help as you can't replace most of them no matter how much you may want to...

 

[grsthegreat]

Ive been using only Satco brand, and in over 6 years ive never had a failure reported to me. My own shop led swap out was 5 years ago. Still super bright.

 

[ultrarunner]

Get the led replacement lamps that dont use a ballast. Simple to install using existing lamp wiring an bypass ballast to direct one side to 120v the other side to neutral. Ive transformed thousands of fixtures like this over the years. Did 400 fixtures last year. I get it down to 10 minutes a fixture or so. I use the push in connectors to move wires and leave old ballast installed in fixture, just cut wires.
I never have to replace the tombstones. I order led lights to fit

One benifit, the lamps last a long time. I did a state of idaho building 5 years ago and replaced over 500 fixtures. Have not had a single lamp burn out . Was just there last week to repair a fixture that got hit by a forklift. The bulbs still worked afterwards.
Or, come to idaho and buy the old lamps by the boxloads.

I’ve got 200 new of the replacement GE LED

It’s odd because maybe 6 years ago I bought a dozen Feit LED replacement for the T12 with starters for the garage at the folks and they continue to work beautifully… I think the cheapest I paid was $20 for a 2 pack

 

[Tinhack]

but if they don't last then there goes any savings in electricity.

What do you mean? If the light is not working, that's 100% savings of electricity.

 

[MossRoad]

One of the 3 presented will be the option.

 

[MossRoad]

Well, yes and no. As someone mentioned upthread, longevity does not seem to be a high priority in the manufacturing of LED bulbs (of any type, not just fluorescent replacements). Yeah, there's all the hype that they'll last 2 million hours or some such nonsense, but the reality is they fail rather quickly. Some of it may be the cheap power supply components, but the lamps themselves don't seem to last very long either. We have a couple strings of "patio" LED lights (on a string, like clear Christmas lights) around the perimeter of our living room for ambient lighting, the bulbs don't seem to last any longer than the old incandescent ones did.
I love having them in my workshop...really bright, instant on even in cold weather, but if they don't last then there goes any savings in electricity.

I have a 6 year old building with about 500 LED fixtures. I've had ONE failure, and that was in the first few months, so defective from factory and replaced under warranty.

I have two more buildings that were converted to all LED fixtures 4 and 5 years ago respectively. I've had ZERO failures.

These are fixtures, not screw in or pinned tubes.

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

I have not had a tube fail, but the bulbs die fast.

 

[ultrarunner]

I have not had a tube fail, but the bulbs die fast.

I bought some first generation CREE Edison base LED for home use and only one failed and it was promptly replaced along with a prepaid mailer to return the old one for failure analysis.

Since then LED prices have dropped a lot and the weight of the physical bulb is now much lighter…

I’ve noticed the cheaper lighter bulbs not as long lasting as the original $15 bulbs.

Around the hospital we have 70W Metal Halide landscape and walkway lamps…

I eliminated the ballasts and replace each MH bulb with Costco 60 or 100W equivalent LED and 13 months later not one has failed on these dawn to dusk very heavy cast aluminum fixtures and bollards…

 

[ultrarunner]

When I needed long lasting Edison base light bulbs my goto was traffic signal bulbs…

They are marked 130v long life and never had one go bad…

They cost more and have a very robust filament and lumen output is less but they are true long life.

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

I wouldn't conclude anything based on 13 months. That's about around 5,000 hours, which is nowhere near the bloated estimates the greenies used to force us to buy imperfect LED's. I wouldn't be impressed by a car that ran 50,000 miles.

Everyone should Google "Dubai LED bulb."

 

[ultrarunner]

True but the MH bulbs are disappearing and were never cheap plus several also had bad MH ballasts also getting harder to find.

The $3 LED bulbs were a few snips to take the ballasts out of the loop and direct wire…

I figure at 13 months I’m ahead… plus lamp disposal also a factor…

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

None of this should be allowed to happen, but then yesterday my wife and I ate at the Cheesecake Factory, and we had to ask for straws. They gave us nice, leaky paper ones. To save sea turtles, which never, ever see American straws in the water. The world has gone nuts. It's all about the pose, not reality.

 

[WinterDeere]

I wouldn't conclude anything based on 13 months. That's about around 5,000 hours, which is nowhere near the bloated estimates the greenies used to force us to buy imperfect LED's. I wouldn't be impressed by a car that ran 50,000 miles.

Everyone should Google "Dubai LED bulb."

These rarely-achieved lifetime estimates are usually based on the LED itself, which will legitimately last damn near forever. The trouble is that any electrolytic or tantalum capacitors used in the driver circuit may have lifespans of just 10,000 - 20,000 hours. So what you end up with is a good LED array in a bad bulb assembly, which is just as useless as a dead LED array.

They're getting better, in fact they're already a heck of a lot better than they were 10 years ago. The high volume of sales in this industry is providing sufficient incentive to support the development of much better ceramic capacitors, which solve many of the lifespan problems of electrolytic and tantalum capacitors.

Even so, many cheap designs push enough power dissipation onto driver circuit resistors to both hurt overall efficiency and shorten lifespan, as lifetime and heat are generally inversely (log/log) proportional, in any electronic device.

 

[MossRoad]

When I needed long lasting Edison base light bulbs my goto was traffic signal bulbs…

They are marked 130v long life and never had one go bad…

They cost more and have a very robust filament and lumen output is less but they are true long life.

I have a 4 bulb fixture in our house. Only two of the bulbs have burned out in 30 years. They are 130V bulbs and very heavy glass. I'll be sad when the last one goes. (or maybe dead )