HST or gear-drive?

[CloverKnollFarms]

Screwdrivers also make great prybars

 

[Wobblin-Goblin]

Some HST are better than others. We have an '06 TYM 23hp Hydro and it works great for loader work. I had a '13 Massey Ferguson 1643 Hydro and hated it. It was loud and whiny with lots of power loss. No thanks.

Got rid of the 1643 and bought a MF 4707 with Powershuttle. Love it. Recently bought a new TYM 2515R with syncroshuttle. Love that tractor too. I won't go back to an HST tractor.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Both my 25 HP & 52 HP have HST & CC!

 

[Drstrangeglove]

If farming or making money the hst will use more fuel than a gear drive. To me it doesn't matter about fuel. My time is more valuable than diesel, that's why I bought a 15ft mower and a 100hp tractor.

 

[dlundblad]

It boils down to personal preference. Your friend needs to try both. His property layout and intended use matters too.

I personally can think of very few situations where I would prefer a gear drive over HST on this size tractor. I have too many obstacles and I use my tractor for landscaping to snow removal.

 

[Rustyiron]

I have run small hst tractors about 1400 hours. I ran a gear drive medium sized utility tractor maybe 2 hours. I really didn’t mind running the gear drive, easier then I expected.

I think that most believe that a gear tractor has a clunky old non synchronized transmission and clutch. They're unfamiliar with the decades old "left hand reverser" and that stopping completely and clutching is not required to reverse direction.
Iirc years past Kubota and some others offered this "reverser" on smaller HP tractors but it required a complete stop and clutching.
I like a hydro for chores but have found that for any "grunt" loader or 3pt work, a range change should be made. This also requires the full stop and not doing so is not the best thing for the hydros. The dealers opinion probably has a lot to do with this.

 

[NUTTERDW]

I guess it would depend on what "general farming" involves ...

Pulling heavy ground engaging attachments for 12 hours a day 20 days a month, sure ...

Cleaning out a chicken barn, no.

Either can move hay bales!

I have a HST Kubota with 1800 hours on it and the HST is going bad, which causes the engine to overheat and just the price of the HST unit with no labor was 4300 in 2014. I checked two different dealers, so I just moved it to my farm to mow the yard there as it is all level and it can be mowed before the the engine starts to over heat. put the 4300 dollars toward a new mower. all I ever use it for is mowing with a belly mower. Neither one has an end loader.

 

[MHarryE]

My sister & her family make about 700 acres of hay yearly, up to 4 crops on some. She has a gear drive for her job - raking, and it's fine. They have a similar sized NH that is used for tedding and on their grinder-mixer. Gear drive is fine for jobs like that. So in that power class tractor you need to know what the tractor will be used for in general farming. When I grew up on a farm a 20HP Farmall Super A at 20 HP with 4 speed was fine. But me when I retired and went back to farming and couldn't afford a tractor for each job type, hydro all the way.

 

[RidgeTopWVA]

The first time that I ever used a hydro was back in the late 1980's and it was a John Deere 750 dozer that John Deere was trying to sell to the company that I worked for and they left it at the plant for 2 weeks for us to try out. I used it pushing coal in the power plant and I decided then I would never buy a tractor that did not have a hydro I would drive the dozer up on a steep grade while pushing coal and run the dozer in reverse fast back down the grade and try to slam it forward as hard as I could forward and you could not damage it it would not shift quickly because of the hydraulics it was a gradual shift no matter what, I have had a John Deere 4400 hydro mid-size compact tractor since around 2001 getting close to 4000 hours on the clock I have timbered with it pulling 20' to 22' logs up to 25" wide up out of these West Virginia hills and hollows making pulls a mile long I have done everything to it and it stills works like new . I have a John Deere X 758 hydro and I punish it too getting close to 2000 hrs on it.

 

[Nam Tran]

If you plan to use the stump grinder attachment, HST will be your choice; otherwise, you will be shifting gears for a long time. I loved my MX 5800 HST, which did everything that I needed.

 

[TORQUIN]

I thought about this 21 years ago when I got my Kubota, and I went with the best of both worlds, the GST transmission. 12 forward speeds and 8 reverse, shuttle shift, gear driven with an automatic clutch. You can push the clutch pedal if you want, but you don't have to. I do not have to deal with ranges, or the power loss, like the HST. The GST does have two ranges, but that is taken care of automatically also, and I just choose my gear. That said, I do see a place for an HST, constant forward and backward motion, like moving dirt from one pile to another, right next to it, but generally, when I move dirt I am moving it from one end of the property to the other, so I use the low gears to pick up the dirt then high gears to get it to where I have to go. With the Kubota HST, you have to stop, change range, then start up again.
All in all, I made the right choice for my tractor tranny. Been very happy with it for all these years.

Chris

 

[Quilceda]

My WM75 is gear, the TC40DA and WM25 are HST. The WM75 only comes in gear. If HST were an option, I would have gotten it. When mowing pastures in mid-range at 2000 RPMs, PTO speed, my options for gears and speed are 1st gear - 1.6 MPH, 2nd gear - 2.4 MPH, and 3rd gear - 3.5 MPH. My back won't tolerate 3.5 MPH. With HST I could set the speed to the fastest possible that my back can tolerate and I can still walk the next day. Losing PTO HP due to having an HST wouldn't be a problem. The WM75 has 60HP PTO, so even gears cause a 20% reduction.

My WM75 would be a lot nicer to use if it didn't have a hair-trigger clutch. Makes close-order work hard so I use an HST tractor for most everything. Otherwise it's a dandy tractor.

 

[RB5]

Farming like row crops? Wrong tractor. Moving hay, stabbing from both ends, stacking in barn, mowing around any objects, stump grinding, tilling or any precise work where you move in more than one direction or very slow and controlled, I prefer HST and my left leg really likes it.

Power reverser. No clutch at slow speeds. Works great for loader work and moving hay bales.

 

[Mudfarmer]

I have both. I can do everything I do with either, but I have my preferences. For example, I like maneuvering with the HST. But I prefer mowing with the gears.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

My neighbor sold me his tractor, told me he was going to go buy a 40hp john deere to replace it. He said the dealer told him he'd like the whiner tranny and with 40hp it would be perfect for his haying operation. I told him, that wouldn't be my first choice, and I didn't think he would like the whiner tranny or the tractor, he went on about the cruise control yadda yadda yadda.

He bought it and just hated the whiner, he was used to using a lower rpm when raking hay and loading big bales, he complained to the dealer, and they told him he'd get used to it! After several weeks he insisted they come get it and bring him a gear drive! AND to show that they were such a wonderful dealer they found him a gear drive and said they wouldn't charge him the EXTRA THOUSAND DOLLARS the "gear drive" cost! lol lol (damcrooks!)

He has more things he doesn't like about the tractor but at least he doesn't have to put up with the whiner anymore. lol

SR

 

[Saucymynx]

I think that so many of us use HST now that the geared tractors don't get a fair shake.

A geared tractor isn't like a truck where we are always shifting gears when changing speeds. When a geared tractor is doing any ground work like mowing, plowing, cultivating, it basically stays in the same gear. You start out in whatever gear fits the job, and from that point the tractor just goes back and forth in that sae gear without any additional clutching. The three point raises and lowers at the end of rows, and speeding up or slowing down are done with the throttle on the dash. There is rarely a need to shift to a different gear.

It's only when using the basic geared farm tractor as a chore & loader tractor that the clutch gets used a lot. That is where HST is king, but modern clutches used right are still good for many thousands of hours even in that use. And a replacement clutch is lots cheaper than HST rebuilds.

A nifty compromise for cost and effiency is a geared tractor with auto clutching and a lever for a hydraulic reverser. That allows the loader tractor to have the advantage of gears and still go back and forth in any gear without using the foot clutch. Kubota calls that system their "glide shift", but most manufacturers offer it as as "power shift with a reverser".

rScotty

I second this. I don’t have and have never had an HST tractor but I do have a barn full of gear tractors. My main heavy tractor is 100 hp, 12,000 pounds. It is gear drive with clutchless shifting between gears, a hi/low selector (think torque amplifier) that is also clutchless, and a clutchless reverser. Seems like the best of both worlds, and I don’t lose 20 hp with an HST swash plate. When it comes right down to it, you’re paying for horsepower and it does not make a lot of sense to give it away through an inefficient power transfer mechanism. I get it for doing tons of loader work, and I do a fair share cleaning out our barns, but the trade-off isn’t worth it to Me.

 

[Saucymynx]

My WM75 would be a lot nicer to use if it didn't have a hair-trigger clutch. Makes close-order work hard so I use an HST tractor for most everything. Otherwise it's a dandy tractor.

Does your tractor have an adjustment knob to sloth the engagement? A lot of tractors that size range have a dial that will increase or decrease engagement time. It makes a difference. Those clutches are all electronically actuated

 

[4570Man]

How many gear tractor guys would spread dirt right against a sidewalk? I do this all the time and I’ve never had to buy a sidewalk. Can you run it smooth enough to flip rocks in the bucket without scooping a bunch of dirt with it?

 

[big bubba]

I second this. I don’t have and have never had an HST tractor but I do have a barn full of gear tractors. My main heavy tractor is 100 hp, 12,000 pounds. It is gear drive with clutchless shifting between gears, a hi/low selector (think torque amplifier) that is also clutchless, and a clutchless reverser. Seems like the best of both worlds, and I don’t lose 20 hp with an HST swash plate. When it comes right down to it, you’re paying for horsepower and it does not make a lot of sense to give it away through an inefficient power transfer mechanism. I get it for doing tons of loader work, and I do a fair share cleaning out our barns, but the trade-off isn’t worth it to Me.

i second this given my similar set up. there is good reason heavier duty Utility machines are geared, rather than HST. but with either system, each has it's place in the tractor power train consumer application.

 

[Saucymynx]

How many gear tractor guys would spread dirt right against a sidewalk? I do this all the time and I’ve never had to buy a sidewalk. Can you run it smooth enough to flip rocks in the bucket without scooping a bunch of dirt with it? View attachment 3815764View attachment 3815765

Looks like you’re using a skid steer. Entirely different conversation. I presume you’ve used a tractor mounted front loader before and you know the drastic difference in visibility of the work area. I suspect that your skill in juggling rocks and placing dirt is more related to the machine and not the transmission