$10K L5030 Plus Restoration, or $25K Newer Tractor With Perilous Electronics?

[Suburban Plowboy]

You can definitely have it as long as you're single.

 

[4570Man]

The idea of running a tractor at very high RPM's to help the environment IS nutty. And it comes from the same people who want us to conserve everything, bathe rarely, and basically live in huts.

My L3710 runs very happily at 1500 RPM. If I had to run it at mowing speeds in order to do the regen Heimlich, it would be very annoying, and it would use more diesel and put more wear on the powertrain.

My decision about avoiding the emissions junk is not open to debate, and the more I hear about this stuff from people who actually work on tractors and trucks, the worse it sounds. I think a lot of people defend it because they already have it.

I’m not defending it I think it’s more reliable to not have it but my 2015 skid steer starts and works everyday so I’m not sure your 10 years to the scrap yard is a solid argument either.

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

I am paying more attention to the many people who have had expensive emissions-parts failures.

 

[DieselBound]

M59 Help: Dealer Wants $6K to Replace the Wiring Harness

Kubota M59, unknown year, ~2600 hours. I've had it about 10 months, have close to $40K into it including major service, new brakes, and completely rebuilt loader and loader hydraulics. I just point this out to say I've been operating with an open checkbook to get this puppy sorted, but I'm...

www.tractorbynet.com

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

The OP didn't tell the end of the story. I hope he didn't end up in the funny farm.

 

[TractorTYMe]

Just on a footnote on TYM's, rather than under-building their axles I think the correct statement is the probably over built their lifting capacities vs green and orange. I have a tier 4 TYM T474 with a Onan\Cummins\Kukje\TYM derives A2300N4 engine. I have 600h without a regen or issue, I run it mostly above 2k rpm when I'm working it, and not idling for more than 5-10 minutes at most. Otherwise I'd just shut it off.

 

[paulsharvey]

Ok, not to go too far off on emissions Again... but part of the problem, Not all of it; is/was a change in mindset on running equipment. It used to be standard practice to start everything in the morning up, grease, fuel, and let it idle, for anything you would run before lunch. So, a vibratory rollers, might not need it till 10:30; but you started it at 7am, and let it idle; haul truck, pan, ect. The old philosophy was, fuels cheap, and it doesn't burn much idling, and if it's gonning to need jumped, or it has a problem, its better to know at the start of the day.

 

[LouNY]

You can definitely have it as long as you're single.

That's not a problem with my wife, she's easy to get along with on my wishes.
But seeing as I already have 4 tractors just for my place as I don't do much at the farm anymore.
The IH 574 hasn't been disconnected from the pto generator in over a year. The Branson 8050 does my driveway work and trimming, the little Kioti 2620 does my puttering around digging and such, and the NH 8160 sits and waits most of the time for me to sand the driveway with her. Only put 5 hours on her this past year.

 

[greenie]

I looked for a pre-emission for half a year - these are at least 13 years old now. Finally bought a 2015 L4760 (Kubota) and now have over 100 hours on it. Regenerations come around pretty quickly the way I use the tractor - 1,500 RPM usually and limited idling. If the particulate filter is good for 3,000 regens, and if I average 20 hours between regens, that's 60,000 hours on the tractor before the filter needs to be replaced/rebuilt.

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

It's 60,000 unless the parts break down unexpectedly, and that has happened to a lot of people. It could be less than 1. You could start your tractor tomorrow and find out you have an expensive, time-wasting problem.

It's not a simple issue. The manufacturer's rosy predictions about part longevity don't make emissions systems okay.

1. These parts force you to run the tractor at high RPM's, which is bad in every way, or you have to do frequent regenerations (also at high RPM's), which is also bad.

2. They make the tractors harder to work on, and that means tremendous aggravation and, if you pay a mechanic, money. Pre-emissions tractors are already hard enough to repair. Also, let's be blunt: many mechanics are not smart. There are a lot of guys out there who do trial-and-error all day; mostly error. You don't want to give your mechanic a hard puzzle if you don't have to.

3. Emissions parts often break down early, and they are expensive to fix.

4. The parts are going to continue to skyrocket in price, outpacing inflation by a country mile, and they will start disappearing when manufacturers decide it's time to push us to buy new tractors. Fancy electronic parts always seem to disappear from the market before ordinary parts, and they can't be repaired like ordinary parts.

My mower was released in around 2009. I have seen people talking about buying controllers in the old days for $80. They are now $340 on a good day. That is approximately three times the rate of inflation.

 

[4570Man]

M59 Help: Dealer Wants $6K to Replace the Wiring Harness

Kubota M59, unknown year, ~2600 hours. I've had it about 10 months, have close to $40K into it including major service, new brakes, and completely rebuilt loader and loader hydraulics. I just point this out to say I've been operating with an open checkbook to get this puppy sorted, but I'm...

www.tractorbynet.com

That M59 IS a pre emissions tractor.

 

[rScotty]

I have bought used cars, trucks, and tractors all my life. I also prefer pre-emissions. In fact, that's all I have.
you do NOT want a beat up one to restore. that never comes out right financially,
Instead, you want to find the best low hour well cared for example of the tractor you want and give the seller top dollar.
Instead of asking why an old ractor is cheap, ask instead nice why his nice one is expensive.
You'll come out ahead.
rScotty

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

I am thinking about the claim that emissions systems are good for 60,000 cycles.

Has anyone else here ever replaced a "15,000-hour" LED bulb after a few months?

To save everyone the math, 15,000 hours are 20 months, 24/7. They routinely fail after 6 months in light (no pun intended) use.

My Ford's water pump, a type of part that often lasts 300,000 miles in better cars, went out at 75,000. Ford put it inside the engine, so there went $2,500. The AC died at about 60,000. They commonly last 200,000 miles. Another two grand. The $340 unnecessary ECM on my mower should have lasted 6,000 hours. Nope! Nowhere close.

Warranties exist for a reason. Consumers forced manufacturers to supply them, because parts fail early.

And of course, now, manufacturers make a lot of parts that are designed to last just a little longer than the warranty periods.

 

[2manyrocks]

As much as one might want a preemissions tractor, could be a challenge to find someone willing to sell theirs because they probably don’t want an emissions tractor nor want to pay today’s prices to replace what they already have and prefer over the dpf machines.

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

Emissions devices are so great, but somehow lots of people want to get pre-emissions tractors, and nobody sold their pre-emissions tractor to get a post-emissions tractor!

 

[4570Man]

Emissions devices are so great, but somehow lots of people want to get pre-emissions tractors, and nobody sold their pre-emissions tractor to get a post-emissions tractor!

I don’t think anyone thinks they are great. But equipment old enough to not have it tends to be clapped and the old equipment that not clapped brings big money. I do have to say that driving my emissions complaints skid steer in the barn to stack lumber is a lot nicer than my old diesel. Starting a 7.3 truck in the house garage kinda sucks too.

 

[rScotty]

SNIP -

And of course, now, manufacturers make a lot of parts that are designed to last just a little longer than the warranty periods.

I've never seen any evidence to support that idea. It would be a lot of work to design that way - probably more work than it's worth.
Without evicence, I gotta put that down as just another "urban legend".
rScotty

 

[2manyrocks]

Idk, cars used to go 200k with reasonable care, but not so sure the CVT transmissions today might be intended to fail at 100k miles.

 

[jmc]

Instead of asking why an old ractor is cheap, ask instead nice why his nice one is expensive.
You'll come out ahead.
rScotty

Could you clarify this?

 

[rScotty]

I have bought used cars, trucks, and tractors all my life. I also prefer pre-emissions. In fact, that's all I have.
you do NOT want a beat up one to restore. that never comes out right financially,
Instead, you want to find the best low hour well cared for example of the tractor you want and give the seller top dollar.
Instead of asking why an old ractor is cheap, ask instead nice why his nice one is expensive.
You'll come out ahead.
rScotty

Could you clarify this?

Maybe I can. I'll try.

For example the OP back in message #1 had budget of $25,000 to buy an older pre-emissions tractor to last him the rest of his life. And he had found an L5030 for $10,000 that was a little bit beat which he figured he would need about $15,000 restoration on top of the purchase priice.

That's the right type of tractor he wants, and he was wondering if he should buy it.

What I am saying is that I think he would be dollars and time ahead to take more time and look for a cleaner low hour L5030 that is selling at a higher price - even though that tractor in better condition might cost $20,000 instead of $10,000.

He ends up with the same tractor and propbably spends the same amount, but I think the second way is the better.
rScotty