Marmot Infestation

[Rockbadchild]

Since one of my dog caught one, they are now obsess with them which is good. There's one under this pile I will have to help them by moving this pile of post.

 

[RockWrangler]

Looks like I am back for another report. I think the primary interest for me in this ongoing exercise is summed up in one sentence: What the heck is going on here?

So far this year I have trapped 34 more of the vermin; 3 today. I have gotten 19 from under my little 6 X 8 chicken coop (like I said earlier, they must be living dormitory style in bunk beds under there), and another 8 from a single barn stall. The rest come from a marmot highway that runs through my orchard. Of the 34 trapped, 32 were juveniles; only 2 were fully-grown adults.

I have been trapping around 75 of the dirty, nasty, diseased creatures per year, 300 in my first 4 years. This is the beginning of the 5th year and I am at 34 in only 2 weeks of trapping. I hate to think of what looms in front of me.

I decided to not put in a garden this year, just tomatoes and my heritage rhubarb that the critters so far have left alone. Whatever they don’t destroy the gophers get, so I decided to close up the feed store. As Oosik said a couple years back, it is cheaper and easier to buy from the grocery store. I still have 150 feet of thornless raspberries and I see that the marmots are busy breaking down the neocanes to eat the tender tops. I try to corral the neocanes so they can’t be broken down, but this year they are getting to the canes anyway.

I will probably post a progress report again in a month or so, just to communicate my perplexity. Like I said above: What the heck is going on here? 334 marmots trapped and they keep coming.

Ron

 

[ponytug]

Sorry to hear about the influx. We, like @oosik gave up gardening when the ground squirrels (our nemesis here) got too invasive.

Our orchard now has a low HDPE fence and electric netting that combined seems to deter them. I know that I should really trench down 18" and put wire mesh in, but somehow it never rises to the top of my do list.

This year we are awash in mice for some reason. Normally the cats keep them away between the feline scent and predation.

Ferret? Dedicated Jack Russel? Adopt a badger?

Good luck.

All the best,

Peter

 

[RockWrangler]

Sorry to hear about the influx. We, like @oosik gave up gardening when the ground squirrels (our nemesis here) got too invasive.

Our orchard now has a low HDPE fence and electric netting that combined seems to deter them. I know that I should really trench down 18" and put wire mesh in, but somehow it never rises to the top of my do list.

This year we are awash in mice for some reason. Normally the cats keep them away between the feline scent and predation.

Ferret? Dedicated Jack Russel? Adopt a badger?

Good luck.

All the best,

Peter

I cleared a space to put in a greenhouse, thinking I would get a head start on the growing season, then transfer the plants to the garden. The more I thought about it, I realized the varmints were going to get the plants anyway, so decided to give up gardening entirely. I still have the berries and cherries--whatever the birds don't get.

 

[ultrarunner]

FWIW: I find the "Gophinator" stainless traps to be easy to use and quite effective. I have the best success digging down the side tunnels to the main tunnel, placing a trap each direction and covering the hole up with something air and light tight.

At the end of the day, for important plants I found that the use of hardware cloth lined baskets surrounding the plant completely underground is essential.

I only use the traps in the orchard to keep the infestation down to a dull roar.

All the best,

Peter

I saw a gopher free beautiful expanse of lawn in a gated golf community when I viewed an open house.

As part of the original landscape stainless mesh was placed just below the turf…

I considered doing the same but a modest residential lawn is too expensive to maintain with high cost city water… so lawns of my youth are all but gone now.

I have referred several to this semi local outfit…

For Contractors and Landscapers

Contractors and landscapers, buy our 304 stainless steel wire mesh rolls and baskets and let us help with pest animal solutions.

gopherslimited.com

 

[ultrarunner]

Here is a effective no poison self resetting trap with good reviews and used by UC Santa Cruz

Goodnature USA | Self Resetting Rat, Mice, and Squirrel Traps

Goodnature USA – Humane, automatic, and toxin-free rodent traps built for American homes and businesses. Safe for kids, pets, and the environment.

goodnature.co

A18 Squirrel and Large Rodent Trapping Kit | Automatic Trap Company

The A18 Squirrel Trapping Kit has everything you need to confidently and efficiently control squirrels and larger rodents in your area. With customized lure solutions and digital counter, the A18 gives users all the tools they need to have success in their trapping.

goodnature.co

 

[M59]

A rather tongue in cheek response, but it is now time to contact the Ukrainian military and get a few of their drones equipped with automatic rifles and AI software and train them on identifying and eradicating marmots. The first weeks of training could be risky so keep any pets inside. I suggest silenced rifles to keep the noise level to a minimum.

 

[the old grind]

I know that I should really trench down 18" and put wire mesh in, but somehow it never rises to the top of my do list.

Vertical mesh means vermin will just dig deeper to try to get under it. Tie into the fence and bury shallow going outward instead. Marmot and beagle proven to minimize digging at the fence where they try to get in/out.

 

[ponytug]

@RockWrangler ever look at this or the lower cost competition?

Home - H&M Gopher Control

PERC® is designed for use in gopher control, ground squirrel control, prairie dog control and similar rodent control applications, including Agriculture, Pest Control, Municipalities, School Districts, etc. PERC® is an Elegant Solution! Carbon monoxide is one of the most potent yet safe poisons...

handmgophercontrol.com

It just seems like you are getting into the "Big Leagues" with your marmot control.

All the best,

Peter

 

[RockWrangler]

@RockWrangler ever look at this or the lower cost competition?

Home - H&M Gopher Control

PERC® is designed for use in gopher control, ground squirrel control, prairie dog control and similar rodent control applications, including Agriculture, Pest Control, Municipalities, School Districts, etc. PERC® is an Elegant Solution! Carbon monoxide is one of the most potent yet safe poisons...

handmgophercontrol.com

It just seems like you are getting into the "Big Leagues" with your marmot control.

All the best,

Peter

I watched the "how to" video on their website. I was hoping it would have lots of satisfying explosions, but nope, gas only. At this point in the process I am feeling blood-thirsty.

Ron

 

[ponytug]

I watched the "how to" video on their website. I was hoping it would have lots of satisfying explosions, but nope, gas only. At this point in the process I am feeling blood-thirsty.

Ron

For explosions, I think that you need something more like the rodenator, but I would not underestimate the above ground fire risk.

It's you money...

These are less money, and for smaller jobs probably work. I haven't used any as our infestations are "Big Leagues".
Home - GopherX

Home - BurrowRx

www.burrowrx.com

UC Ag periodically tests efficacy of various units, but I haven't seen any marmot efficacy testing (or wood chucks).

All the best,

Peter

 

[RockWrangler]

For explosions, I think that you need something more like the rodenator, but I would not underestimate the above ground fire risk.

It's you money...

These are less money, and for smaller jobs probably work. I haven't used any as our infestations are "Big Leagues".
Home - GopherX

Home - BurrowRx

www.burrowrx.com

UC Ag periodically tests efficacy of various units, but I haven't seen any marmot efficacy testing (or wood chucks).

All the best,

Peter

I can't use explosions on my property anyway: shallow irrigation and septic systems because of the basalt rock under everything. I have explored just about every option, and because of my location and layout, live-trapping is the only way that makes sense. 338 marmots since I started trapping late summer of 2019; 38 so far this year, and still probably 4 months before they move underground again. At one time I thought I might be able to control the population, but nowadays I am wondering when I will make it to the 500 mark.

Ron

 

[ponytug]

You have my sympathies. Your marmot infestation sounds like the proverbial between a rock and a hard place.

To what extent is sinking perimeter foundations to the basalt possible for what you want to protect?

I've lived around ground hogs and badgers, but neither rose to pest level for us. To me marmots are the "super power" version of our nemesis, ground squirrels, for which they say that 36-48" deep ripping is a solution, but that's in a different league of HP than what is on this ranch. That doesn't mean I'm not tempted sometimes. Trapping, I feed a couple a day to the birds and coyotes, and that's just trying to keep them away from the house and barn.

I do wonder to what extent fumigating them in a burrow might "red tag" the burrows for others.

I came across a local company here specializing in heavy duty stainless mesh to be intentionally buried under lawns and orchards to suppress ground squirrels and pocket gophers. I'm thinking about it for restarting our former vegetable patch. I'm envisioning marmots needing 1/8" thick wire mesh...

All the best,

Peter

 

[the old grind]

NYC was putting dry ice into rat holes with some success, but suffocation takes a while. That said, we have CO2 for welding, but soil like in my area (post-glacial sand) is too porous to ever flood tunnels much less expect good dispersion with gases.

Equal parts flour and plaster of Paris, and stir in a bit of sugar or powdered chocolate drink mix. Mold/shape/press into balls or pellets of various sizes and scatter for mice, rats, chippies, grays, reds, gophers, groundhogs ...

Some herbs may enhance attraction or preference. Add sparingly and try different ones in small batches. I'll keep trapping in the buildings to collect & dispose of bodies but for yard infestations I have my simple solution, and secondary kills aren't ever a problem.

 

[MossRoad]

I watched the "how to" video on their website. I was hoping it would have lots of satisfying explosions, but nope, gas only. At this point in the process I am feeling blood-thirsty.

Ron

 

[masseyrider]

Since one of my dog caught one, they are now obsess with them which is good. There's one under this pile I will have to help them by moving this pile of post.

View attachment 3618472

I had 6 Manchester terrors at one point. The breed was developed as a ratter and boy were they good at it.
The mother came from the local pound.
She came out pruning with me in the orchard one early spring day. There still were patches of snow and you could see the mouse runs where it had melted away.
First mouse I saw I tried to get Sandy interested. Nothing doing.
Second one I wacked with a pitch fork and tossed it at her. She looked at me like, "what the heck!"
I tossed it at her again and hit her with it.
I guess she smelled blood and it triggered her hunting instinct.
She didn't want to come in that evening she was so busy looking for more.
Her pups were all hunting crazy.
Their greatest joy was killing little critters.
Mice, rats, squirrels, wabbits anything they could catch was on the list.
The one pair had it down to a science.
Maggy, who was smaller, would get into the tight spots and Rotty would wait outside ready to grab whatever she spooked out.

 

[ponytug]

I had 6 Manchester terrors at one point. The breed was developed as a ratter and boy were they good at it.
The mother came from the local pound.
She came out pruning with me in the orchard one early spring day. There still were patches of snow and you could see the mouse runs where it had melted away.
First mouse I saw I tried to get Sandy interested. Nothing doing.
Second one I wacked with a pitch fork and tossed it at her. She looked at me like, "what the heck!"
I tossed it at her again and hit her with it.
I guess she smelled blood and it triggered her hunting instinct.
She didn't want to come in that evening she was so busy looking for more.
Her pups were all hunting crazy.
Their greatest joy was killing little critters.
Mice, rats, squirrels, wabbits anything they could catch was on the list.
The one pair had it down to a science.
Maggy, who was smaller, would get into the tight spots and Rotty would wait outside ready to grab whatever she spooked out.

They used to use ferrets and terriers to eliminate rats in buildings in New York. They would open a trench around the outside of the building, station terriers with handlers along the trench, and then turn loose a ferret or three at the top of the building. Apparently rats have an innate fear of ferrets, and would flee downwards, alerting their brethren, and the rats would swarm out the bottom to the waiting terriers.

Supposedly, it was extremely effective.

When Boston put in the underground tunnel along the waterfront, (the Big Dig) the estimate was for a billion rats to be displaced. As this was thought likely to overwhelm the local landfills, the city opted not to do anything and allowed the escaping rats to flow into adjacent buildings, streets, sewers, markets... No comment on the decision making.

I have no idea if ferrets are effective against marmots. There does seem to be a certain mismatch in size, but in my experience weasels and ferrets don't seem to have the fear gene.

All the best,

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

There are quite a few videos out there by this guy that hunts rats with his minks and dog. The minks go in the tunnels and if they don't kill the rats first, the ones that survive run out and the dog kill them immediately. Surprisingly, the dog doesn't go after the minks. How they can distinguish them in all the action is crazy!

But I don't think the minks would take on a marmot or groundhog. Who knows?

 

[ponytug]

I'd bet on the mink. The whole weasel clan doesn't understand the meaning of "backing down". Known predators of western marmots besides bears, coyotes and foxes, apparently include, amongst others, badgers, martens, and yes, mink.

That said, apparently mink are known to prey on the young of another species in the marmota genus, ground hogs.

Sizewise, martens and badgers are probably a better match. Pet badger anyone? In California, pet ferrets are illegal, being non-native, but perhaps @RockWrangler could get a license for a pet marten...? Or at least a pack of terriers, as they are up to cornering badgers underground, something I wouldn't be fit for. Until he gets his population under control, I'm sure that he could keep more than a few terriers fed with fresh marmot. However, I have no idea what the legal beavers say about using dogs to kill marmots.

All the best,

Peter

 

[RockWrangler]

I have watched a couple videos of the guy with the minks and dogs catching rats. I considered dogs at one time, and might reconsider again some day, but for now live-trapping makes more sense for me. I did dump a little gasoline down a couple marmot tunnels under the chicken coop; I think the combination of gasoline fumes and trapping finally finished off that marmot dormitory--20 out that location alone. Another 10 from under the wood stack in a horse stall--looks like that one is done, too. Now I have to plug up the tunnels with rock and concrete. As I said 5 years ago, the neighbors up the road, down the road, and up the cliff all gave up the battle long before I moved here. They complain about the marmots undermining their garages and house foundations, but have learned to live with it. The neighbor across the road did tell me there seem to be fewer marmots on his property. I told him that is because I have trapped over 300 of them. I still see them coming across the road to my place. My green oasis is a real attraction.