New basic EV truck

[IXLR8]

I have wondered the same thing as we hardly put any miles on our vehicles. Would the battery become useless long before the rest of the vehicle sees wear?

Just like your computer, the battery life has a limited number discharge/recharge cycles. That number is pretty high with the charge control systems in the cars today. If you don't use it, you won't loose it, as far as battery life is concerned.
On the other hand, I seriously doubt that the EV credit will still be available by the time this thing actually hits the market. So I wouldn't be counting on that.

 

[2manyrocks]

It seemed designed to soak up the EV tax credit. If the credit were repealed today, would they even build these?

 

[Jstpssng]

Being that the Maverick is made in Mexico, who knows what the future price will be.

I'm not sure where he finds a Maverick today for $23000. The last time I checked they were over 25, and that was a couple of years ago.

 

[newbury]

If I had to guess probably less than 5% of new car sales are cash sales.

Correction, 12-15% of new car sales are cash; but anyone in the market for a 20k vehicle is likely not going to have 20k sitting around. Edmunds. 2023, 15% cash buyers.

I would guess the cheaper the car, the less cash sales.

A lot of "Harry Homeowners" need just that type of vehicle occasionally.
Easy to put a ladder rack on and carry several 2x4x?? or a few sheets of plywood, or a load of branches or even a ladder.
And as far as "cash sales" - my last 4 vehicles, from about 2010 on, I found it cheaper to take a loan out from my CU rather than draw down my bank accounts because the CU's loan interest rate beat what I was earning on my money in bonds/T-bills by a few %. Borrow from CU at 2%, loan to Treasury at 4%. So I skew the statistics.

 

[ponytug]

So, not Slate specific, more EV question. How does age and/or milage affect resale? I would think miles are less important than age? Would there be a display showing how many charge-discharge cycles are on the battery? Or are all of the current EVs basically disposable after 5-8 years?

I have wondered the same thing as we hardly put any miles on our vehicles. Would the battery become useless long before the rest of the vehicle sees wear?

Every EV that I know reports range, which is a proxy for battery capacity, and there is usually a way to get the data from the BMS about the fraction of battery capacity/ degradation. Even most phones report it somewhere.

As far as resale, from what I have seen, it depends a lot on the vehicle, as some, e.g. Leaf, seem to hold resale values better than others, but battery capacity is definitely key. I have one vehicle where the battery was worth more than the vehicle the last time that I checked. Go figure.

All the best,

Peter

 

[paulsharvey]

I'm not sure where he finds a Maverick today for $23000. The last time I checked they were over 25, and that was a couple of years ago.

The Slate is starting at $27,500 according to everything I've seen. So, yeah for right at $31k, you can get a pretty decent Maverick.

 

[paulsharvey]

A lot of "Harry Homeowners" need just that type of vehicle occasionally.
Easy to put a ladder rack on and carry several 2x4x?? or a few sheets of plywood, or a load of branches or even a ladder.
And as far as "cash sales" - my last 4 vehicles, from about 2010 on, I found it cheaper to take a loan out from my CU rather than draw down my bank accounts because the CU's loan interest rate beat what I was earning on my money in bonds/T-bills by a few %. Borrow from CU at 2%, loan to Treasury at 4%. So I skew the statistics.

Yes, that's my point, as a 3rd vehicle, assuming 2 drivers; and maybe a kid or two that might borrow it; it has to be Cheap to make sense. I mean Cheap. It better be cheaper than a 2015-2020 Colorado/Ranger/Nissian Frontier, or atleast comparable.

At $27,500; I just think there are more capable vehicles in the 2-3 year old range; or close enough in price, with more capabilities/luxuries.

Now, my point was, without the EV check. With that EV check, a price of $20,000 is atleast 25% cheaper than a Maverick.

I dont know if insurance in an EV is more/less or unaffected compared to a traditional vehicle. Tags are same, or a bit more, cause of weight, but not significantly

 

[paulsharvey]

Just like your computer, the battery life has a limited number discharge/recharge cycles. That number is pretty high with the charge control systems in the cars today. If you don't use it, you won't loose it, as far as battery life is concerned.
On the other hand, I seriously doubt that the EV credit will still be available by the time this thing actually hits the market. So I wouldn't be counting on that.

Yeah, but you also have a rapidly evolving battery tech. So, just like a computer or phone, that 5 year old EV might still work, but if in 2031, they have a comparable vehicle with 300 mile range, faster charging, whatever, that 5 year old Slate's value is going to be pretty dang low.

Some searching suggests a traditional light truck resells after 5 years for 65.7% of the original purchase price. I would think EV would take a bigger hit?

 

[paulsharvey]

I'm kinda wondering where this Slate is on the cost vs capabilities bell curve, and that we might be to the point we are removing features for small, small cost savings.

At a certain point, do you want to remove the cup holders to save $50? What did we have with the crank windows, maybe $100?

Some of the big expensive, useless features are mandated, like air bags, and all that. So, we probably have $5000 in mandated BS.

 

[paulsharvey]

In about 30.seconds i found multiple FWD Mavericks, new, from $26,500-28,500; and a couple AWDs, new, for $33,000. With that, you get a radio and some other luxurys, like a glove box and cup holders.

So, the Slate IMO, is a $20,000 vehicle, selling for $27,500; and then the only thing giving it an advantage is the federal $7,500 EV check.

With all that negativity; i do see people working on "how cheap can we build a street legal vehicle" as a good thing.

 

[John_Mc]

In about 30.seconds i found multiple FWD Mavericks, new, from $26,500-28,500; and a couple AWDs, new, for $33,000. With that, you get a radio and some other luxurys, like a glove box and cup holders.

So, the Slate IMO, is a $20,000 vehicle, selling for $27,500; and then the only thing giving it an advantage is the federal $7,500 EV check.

With all that negativity; i do see people working on "how cheap can we build a street legal vehicle" as a good thing.

Actually, the only thing giving it an advantage on the purchase price might be the EV check. Ongoing maintenance costs and fuel costs are dramatically lower for EVs as compared to ICE vehicles.

I'm not trying to argue that the Slate is a truck for everyone, but I can certainly see the case for some users.

 

[paulsharvey]

Actually, the only thing giving it an advantage on the purchase price might be the EV check. Ongoing maintenance costs and fuel costs are dramatically lower for EVs as compared to ICE vehicles.

I'm not trying to argue that the Slate is a truck for everyone, but I can certainly see the case for some users.

Yes and No. I think the market audience are the people driving less than 100 miles per week anyways. How much are they actually saving on fuel, and oil changes?

Had this kinda discussion with my 70 y/o mom. She was wanting to get a hybrid, or plug in hybrid, cause they are so efficient. OK, but you drive 50 miles per week, in a Camry that gets 36 mpg. So, you might save, what, $150/year?

Some searching shows in my area, it costs about $0.03-0.05/mile for the power. Vs, 36 mph car. So, $1.08-1.80/36 miles, vs $3.08/gal to go that same 36 miles. Yes, that is a savings, but when we are talking people driving 5000 miles per year. Gas car, getting 36 mpg=$427/year in gas vs $150-250 in electric for the EV. So, maybe a grand savings of $227/year. We also save 1 oil change, at $120 per year; but we need the upfront for the 240v charging outlet.

 

[paulsharvey]

Now, to play devils advocate; I could easily see some work places doing the solar car ports, over existing parking (not increasing our impervious surface, so no additional storm water controls needed), and offering free charging to employees. That changes this equation. Places like Hospitals, Schools, ect; use a grant or something to install the rack and panel; and using that as an incentive to retain/attract employees.

 

[paulsharvey]

Trying to point out I'm Not anti EV, and I do absolutely see situations that could make it smart. I also do think we likely will get to a place in the next 10 years where, maybe 1 in 3 vehicles in US are EV or plug in hybrid. I also do see ways that it could be used by employers to attract people to jobs.

I also could see it being an advantage in SxSs, where toting 2-5 gak cans from the gas station can be annoying.

Also, a home solar car port would be practical for a 2nd/3rd vehicle, but not a primary, as hopefully your butt is at work during the day,

 

[dmccarty]

Now, to play devils advocate; I could easily see some work places doing the solar car ports, over existing parking (not increasing our impervious surface, so no additional storm water controls needed), and offering free charging to employees. That changes this equation. Places like Hospitals, Schools, ect; use a grant or something to install the rack and panel; and using that as an incentive to retain/attract employees.

I know some companies have put chargers in the parking lots on the campuses. This is fine for open parking lots but I wonder what is going to happen if insurance companies start dropping coverage of EVs parked in garages. I have heard of that recently.

We were thinking about buying a condo that has a parking garage with chargers. No way would I live in the tower that had a parking deck. The HOA has VERY high fees and I wonder if it is coverage for the parking deck. Not sure we are going to dig any deeper because of the HOA fees.

Regarding battery life time. I am only familiar with LiFePo batteries, which some EVs are using, and the lifetime depends on the number charge cycles, how deep the batteries where discharged, battery temperature, and how much power was applied to charge. Best case is that one drives to work and back using a small percentage of battery capacity, and then recharges. Worst case, take a trip, consume almost all of the battery and recharge while the battery is hot and with a fast charger.

For example one battery company says they will have 9,000 cycles when only charging 50% of the battery. But if one has to charge 90% of the battery, the number of cycles is around 2,000. 9,000 cyles is really high. Other batteries are around 4,000 to 5,000 at 50% charge.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I didn't mean the mechanical limits; I more mean the ones that need 6 lanes to make a turn, or can't back up. Actually, I know Swift drivers have a rep, but Cardnial trucking.... Dealing with some of those when building a warehouse years ago, and some would refuse to enter a site without pull in, pull out; they didn't know how to back any semi up

Well, going from females pulling horse trailers to professional tractor trailer drivers, I can add one more category: People that simply don't know how to drive, let alone back up even a small car, and of any gender (I have lost track of how many there supposedly are these days).

You mentioned inexperience earlier, and that can indeed be a large factor, but then again, none of us were born knowing how to drive. Or how to pull trailers. Sadly, there are those who simply never learn, and those are the ones I fear. Plus those who may know how to drive, but are busy with their phones etc., oblivious to what's going on around them.

Give me a female in a 6500 pulling her horse trailer any day over those drivers. While she may be inexperienced, at least she's most likely trying to learn, doing her best to keep the horses alive and well.

 

[paulsharvey]

I know some companies have put chargers in the parking lots on the campuses. This is fine for open parking lots but I wonder what is going to happen if insurance companies start dropping coverage of EVs parked in garages. I have heard of that recently.

We were thinking about buying a condo that has a parking garage with chargers. No way would I live in the tower that had a parking deck. The HOA has VERY high fees and I wonder if it is coverage for the parking deck. Not sure we are going to dig any deeper because of the HOA fees.

Regarding battery life time. I am only familiar with LiFePo batteries, which some EVs are using, and the lifetime depends on the number charge cycles, how deep the batteries where discharged, battery temperature, and how much power was applied to charge. Best case is that one drives to work and back using a small percentage of battery capacity, and then recharges. Worst case, take a trip, consume almost all of the battery and recharge while the battery is hot and with a fast charger.

For example one battery company says they will have 9,000 cycles when only charging 50% of the battery. But if one has to charge 90% of the battery, the number of cycles is around 2,000. 9,000 cyles is really high. Other batteries are around 4,000 to 5,000 at 50% charge.

If we figure 4000 charge cycles; that equates to maybe 16 years of life. Now, does just years affect the battery too? I know times have changed, and battery tech as well; but the older batteries had about a 5 year "half life", regardless of charge cycles. So, that 150 mile range was more like 75-80 mile range after about 5 years. My thought, 150 miles does a lot; say 35 mile commute, both ways, no worries. Your life starts dipping towards a 100 mile range, and you start getting a bit nervous about that 35 miles there and back, if there's an accident and you need to detour...

If running that 4000 charges at 50%, we have a battery life of around 300,000 miles, which is about the life span of most vehicles.

 

[paulsharvey]

I did some AI, lazy butt work, and come up with a low end cost for a 2 bay home solar charing car port of $14-24,000. Thats expensive; but you also have the carport function, the charging, and all that. So, again, we are working towards it, but i don't think for most people, we are ready for 100% EV now.

Now, we add politics and "feelings" I could see a subdivision builder throwing up a $14,000 solar charger carport, and people paying a premium for the home, because it's Green. It's also not a bad thing. Of coarse, that depends on where solar panels end up on the tariff. If it settles out around 35%, that's still workable. If it doesn't settle out, and it's 125%, not so much.

Edit; honestly, a $14k upgrade on a home for a solar carport is probably smarter than a $14k upcharge for "premium tile"...

 

[paulsharvey]

Yes. BTW, I have seen some $6,500 solar carport kits online; but that doesn't include any permitting, labor, and is likely not rated for 130 mph winds. It also surely doesn't include the footers, or anything.

 

[paulsharvey]

One really cool thing Slate has said, user servicablity, excluding high voltage. They actually plan on posting "how to videos" and everything with the intent for you to do all of your own work, installs, and customizations.