Homes… Your Thoughts… Old or New?

[jyoutz]

Sorry to say that I brought a 1960s house that was built like a brick (same well regarded contractor built several of them in different areas in our community) and have seen newer homes built like a shed. Literally the 1960s house doors/windows all operated fine. Trim was cut and hand nailed solidly. Today's trim is shot in place with thin gauge trim nails and often joints caulked to hide the gaps. Exteriors aren't brick. They tend to be sheet goods made to resemble board and batten siding and/or vinyl siding. HVAC systems rely on flex duct not metal.

Not saying all better then/now, but saying each house has to be evaluated on its own merits.

I’ve noticed that houses built in the 1960s seem to be pretty sound, but the 1970s built houses seem to be the poorest quality. For that matter, I’ve noticed the same thing about vehicles. The 1970s seem to be the low point in US construction and manufacturing quality.

 

[Dftodd]

I’ve noticed that houses built in the 1960s seem to be pretty sound, but the 1970s built houses seem to be the poorest quality. For that matter, I’ve noticed the same thing about vehicles. The 1970s seem to be the low point in US construction and manufacturing quality.

That was the downhill side of the hippy era

They were probably still half baked and pickled

 

[ultrarunner]

I’m a contractor and as far as I’m concerned the idea that old houses are better is completely rubbish. There’s always been shoddy builders but at least now they have some building codes to keep them in check. I’m not sure how anyone thinks that people could build whatever they wanted completely unchecked and untrained made for better quality? My county didn’t enforce any build codes until 2012. Until then you were completely free to span 2x6 floor joints 16 ft on 24” centers if you felt like it. Now days plumbing and electrical has to be done by licensed plumbers and electricians and be inspected. Does that ensure quality? Of course not but that’s better than harry hack doing it with zero oversight. Depending on where we’re drawing the line as old the old houses didn’t even have plumbing, electrical or HVAC. Those systems were usually installed later and almost always hacked up. Even crappy new windows seal better than old ones. Heating old homes especially really old ones is a costly venture. Building code requires insulation. Old homes frequently have none or very little. People are usually comparing the elite class of old homes and ignoring that the vast majority of them fell down already. I will agree that old timber was better and the old building lots were usually better. I’m not saying all new houses are good. There’s definitely shoddy builders but at least now they at least have code enforcement. But there’s always been shoddy builders and previously they had zero oversight. I don’t exactly send the code guys a Christmas card they make my life harder and more expensive but I’ve seen enough shoddy work to realize why they exist.

1922 we had building codes in my city and I have the original signed off inspector card.

The stucco is like iron and hammer blows bounce off like hitting an anvil.

I still have the original 1922 cabinets and counters and galvanized pipe and original electric service… maybe because I am only the second owner?

Having renovated many homes over the years and supervising hospital construction has me appreciating just how well built a vintage tract home can be…

I have also seen is too many botched remodels and hacked renovations take their toll.

No doubt and without question today’s homes built right are amazing…

My disappointment is from seeing new tract homes built in the South West… even entire tracts with homes having to truck in water or finding the private sewer lateral not connected, or unsecured/joined trusses, settling where the underground gas and electric physically separate from entry points and stucco so weak the chicken wire shows and a hammer blow is likely to go right through the wall.

Insulation certificates often mean little… no insulation in places or voids… yet signed off.

Also have found entire tracts with aluminum wiring that self loosens or the insulation shrinks back exposing bare conductors… and plastic pipe breaking down from exposure too quickly.

I’m sure no one can forget Chinese Drywall…

In Texas folks were having furnace troubles and the cause determined no rain cap on the gas vents… a sea of straight exposed furnace vents.

Several co workers were part of a class action against the manufacturer of their cellulose fiber roof tiles and they won…

I do think multi pane windows have a useful life until the seal breaks down letting moisture fog.

 

[Dftodd]

I’m a contractor and as far as I’m concerned the idea that old houses are better is completely rubbish. There’s always been shoddy builders but at least now they have some building codes to keep them in check. I’m not sure how anyone thinks that people could build whatever they wanted completely unchecked and untrained made for better quality? My county didn’t enforce any build codes until 2012. Until then you were completely free to span 2x6 floor joints 16 ft on 24” centers if you felt like it. Now days plumbing and electrical has to be done by licensed plumbers and electricians and be inspected. Does that ensure quality? Of course not but that’s better than harry hack doing it with zero oversight. Depending on where we’re drawing the line as old the old houses didn’t even have plumbing, electrical or HVAC. Those systems were usually installed later and almost always hacked up. Even crappy new windows seal better than old ones. Heating old homes especially really old ones is a costly venture. Building code requires insulation. Old homes frequently have none or very little. People are usually comparing the elite class of old homes and ignoring that the vast majority of them fell down already. I will agree that old timber was better and the old building lots were usually better. I’m not saying all new houses are good. There’s definitely shoddy builders but at least now they at least have code enforcement. But there’s always been shoddy builders and previously they had zero oversight. I don’t exactly send the code guys a Christmas card they make my life harder and more expensive but I’ve seen enough shoddy work to realize why they exist.

For me, mid 80's houses on up built on acreage seemed to be built better than the houses in cookie cutter neighborhoods.

I used to install security systems so I came in contact with homes of all types.

The cookie cutter neighborhoods seemed to be the poorest quality of the builds.

The contractors get beat down so bad by the developers that corners get cut, paint and sealers get thinned, etc.....

And it seems that the bigger the developer, the shoddier the build.

 

[Captain Dirty]

Those of us who live in "old" houses and who think older houses were well-built should remind ourselves that we are living in "survivors". Shoddily built houses of 1 or 2 centuries ago have long since fallen to ruin and disappeared.

 

[jyoutz]

That was the downhill side of the hippy era

They were probably still half baked and pickled

Also it’s obvious that the materials were substandard. Single pane aluminum windows, cheap siding, ect…

 

[ultrarunner]

Many times change was seen as modern…

Aluminum casement windows on new high end 1950’s home were sold as convenient and maintenance free.

All copper water and waste lines over galvanized and cast iron…

Formica smooth and sanitary counters instead of tile and grout…

Wall to wall carpet instead of cold drafty hardwood.

Stained casework instead of painted…

Aluminum frame screens for every window.

Federal Pacific Breakers over Glass Fuses…

 

[MossRoad]

I think the reason so many 100 year old homes here have weathered well is the very mild California climate…

Somewhere I have the original bill of sale listing down payment in 1922 as $10 US Gold.

The layout and craftsman standards like the Bay Window, Built In Hutch and Matchstick Hardwood are appreciated 100 years later…

I like the original double hung windows, door hardware, 1922 high leg stove and gravity central heat…

I like the wavy glass in our windows.

 

[ultrarunner]

I like the wavy glass in our windows.

I’ve seen that also.

Glass is amorphous and not crystalline so it continues to flow over the centuries…

 

[MossRoad]

Many times change was seen as modern…

Aluminum casement windows on new high end 1950’s home were sold as convenient and maintenance free.

All copper water and waste lines over galvanized and cast iron…

Formica smooth and sanitary counters instead of tile and grout…

Wall to wall carpet instead of cold drafty hardwood.

Stained casework instead of painted…

Aluminum frame screens for every window.

Federal Pacific Breakers over Glass Fuses…

I do miss my wall to wall carpet. While I like the wood floors that were underneath it, the carpet made the room much warmer and quieter. You could just lay on it and be comfortable. I have to wear socks with the wood floor. The cats won't even lay on it.

 

[ultrarunner]

1920’s and 30’s typical ranging from 900 to 1150 square feet

 

[check]

Bought a 1940’s house on a 50’ x 162’ lot last year. Fought off seven multiple offers to win the house, because the owners had been in it 40 years, loved it to death, and did not want to Builder to trash it. They were very happy to let us have it.

They have kept it up VERY well over the years, completed a family room and a rear addition with a lovely kitchen, and it is all we need

There are a few things to do, but I have a huge amount of construction experience and can handle it. (For example, putting in central vac.)

I have spent more than enough years, renovating old houses that I want to just basically relax in this place. My daughter, of course has other ideas, and wants to build a brand new house like the ones next to it when she gets married and has children.Fine. She can do that when I’m dead and gone.

This is definitely one of those examples where this very well built 75 year-old house is better than the new ones going up today.

 

[Oaktree]

I’ve noticed that houses built in the 1960s seem to be pretty sound, but the 1970s built houses seem to be the poorest quality. For that matter, I’ve noticed the same thing about vehicles. The 1970s seem to be the low point in US construction and manufacturing quality.

That was the downhill side of the hippy era

The cookie cutter neighborhoods seemed to be the poorest quality of the builds.

The post WWII housing boom produced some rather crappy houses too. When I was in grade school, got roped into selling some sort of products door-to-door for some sort of school fundraiser. There was a development built in the mid-50s that was part of my territory, the houses were all essentially one open space with 8' high partitions (think office cubicle) dividing off the rooms. No ceilings per se in any room, just the (finished) underside of the peaked roof!

Yeah, the 70s weren't exactly a high point in build quality for anything. I'd be hard-pressed to name any decent vehicles that came out of that period, foreign or domestic.

Don't think the hippies had anything to do with it though...the WWII generation was still running the show.

 

[Oaktree]

There're some things to be said about a new house....

Windows and doors that seal and insulate as well as operate correctly.
Thick, well insulated walls and ceilings.
Adequate electrical power.
Efficient HVAC and appliances.
Proper plumbing.
Roof and siding that's going to last 30+ years.
Etc....

You left off one thing...square and plumb!
I like to joke that my (1830s) house was built before the level and square were invented. To level a ~42" table in my wife's craft room, I needed 2" shims under one end!! No, the whole house isn't quite that bad, mostly just that one room. And it was built that way, it's not from settling.

Still, give me an old house any day of the week. The old houses had character, most new ones are just too bland for my liking. I really dislike the current "open concept" fad with one big combination kitchen/dining/living room.

As far as materials quality in new construction...well, that could go either way. Some of what you mention is required by building codes these days, so builders cut corners in other ways...cheap "contractor grade" cabinets, windows & doors, etc. May look/work well when new, but doesn't stand up.

 

[WinterDeere]

You left off one thing...square and plumb!
I like to joke that my (1830s) house was built before the level and square were invented.

This seemed to vary a lot by builder, and how the house has settled. The worst I ever owned was actually one of the newer houses I've lived in, an 1870's brick Victorian, in which there wasn't a single square corner on most of the doors in the house... every single one was a custom trapezoid.

The 1730's portion of my current house is dead-plumb and square, and I can tell the 1770's portion was at one time, but has settled and sagged a bit since original construction. Most of that was caused by subsequent rennovators removing interior walls to "open up" the old floor plan, replacing load-bearing walls with old barn beams insufficient to carry the load without sagging over time.

 

[riptides]

I am still on the fence between old and new.

We are 21 years into a "renovation" of a 1920 farm and farmhouse. Originally I liked the land, the wife liked the smaller house. The house had major issues. Additions and whatnot over the decades were not done properly. Our friends all suggested it would be better and cheaper if we demolished the house and built new. The wife though liked the original house, minus the additions. So we torn off everything not original. The "renovation" took me about two years.
All new electric, plumbing and some wall work, LOL (new additions), new roof. Basically a new build, except for parts of the old original farmhouse. We built out a new house around the original farm house. The issue has been in the original farm house, insultation. Even with the remodel the "design" of the old farm house, the insulation sucks. There are always drafts.

In another life my do over would be new build. Turn key and go.

Renovations never end.

 

[Snobdds]

I think the reason so many 100 year old homes here have weathered well is the very mild California climate…

Somewhere I have the original bill of sale listing down payment in 1922 as $10 US Gold.

The layout and craftsman standards like the Bay Window, Built In Hutch and Matchstick Hardwood are appreciated 100 years later…

I like the original double hung windows, door hardware, 1922 high leg stove and gravity central heat…

I think the #1 reason that old homes lasted longer is due to air flow. Those old homes were drafty and had very little insulation. I think new homes that are sprayed foamed up tight are going to be a problem in future years, unless done correctly. The use of open cell foam should be banned in homes, that does nothing but cause rot on the sheathing. There needs to be a robust air exchanger (with humidity control if in a humid environment) if the home is fully sprayed foam, which many people and contractors don't want to invest in.

Get air flow in your house and it will live a long life...

 

[arto98607]

Bought a 1940’s house on a 50’ x 162’ lot last year. Fought off seven multiple offers to win the house, because the owners had been in it 40 years, loved it to death, and did not want to Builder to trash it. They were very happy to let us have it.

They have kept it up VERY well over the years, completed a family room and a rear addition with a lovely kitchen, and it is all we need

There are a few things to do, but I have a huge amount of construction experience and can handle it. (For example, putting in central vac.)

I have spent more than enough years, renovating old houses that I want to just basically relax in this place. My daughter, of course has other ideas, and wants to build a brand new house like the ones next to it when she gets married and has children.Fine. She can do that when I’m dead and gone.

This is definitely one of those examples where this very well built 75 year-old house is better than the new ones going up today.

I have installed central vacuum piping twice, one in the previous house and one in our current house.

They were both weekend projects due to full time working for living at the time, and took me couple of weekends to complete.

The first house had an unfinished basement which made it pretty easy to install the piping, the current house is a two story and it was all 100% completed which made it little more challenging project.

They are not so common for some reason in USA but are lot more common in Canada.

Glad I did it.

 

[BackRoad]

Lots of great stories and perspectives in this thread! I like it! Guess that's why there are so many different ages and styles of homes.

We've moved often so lots of homes, like an old falling down 30's farm house, 70's double wide, post WWII tract house, custom built 90's Victorian, Builder's Model home for a subdivision...a couple of apartments and I even convinced my wife to live in an 8'x30' trailer dragged out of a hunting camp!

But now - we're in our last house. Designed from experience with all those other houses, as our "end of the trail" home.

I worked 10 hours a day, side by side with the builder for over 16 months, and I know it intimately. If the install of the insulation, electrical, painting or finish trim is not right, It's on me! (I'm the only home owner he's ever allowed to do that).

There's a unique freedom experienced when you build or remodel a house based on how you want it, without worry about future resale value, layout or curb appeal for the next owner.

It applies whether it's old or new, a 1920 bungalow, a house imbued with your Grandfather's fingerprints...or an 8'x30' hunting camp trailer!

The worry about future resale value belongs to our kids - after we're gone...

 

[ultrarunner]

A few I know boxed themselves into a corner with no permit or a remodel permit by deciding to scrape Im and rebuild saying it was foolish to work with existing once they got into it.

The result in each case was new setbacks applied so no possibility to reclaim square footage removed.

This is especially an issue with setbacks from water…