Who still drives a stick in 2025?

[2manyrocks]

These systems are becoming so complex and requiring specialized tools/scanners to the point that even professional mechanics won't work on some of them.

 

[WinterDeere]

Kids in the future will have to become their own electronics repair stations.

True, but I suspect this is a lower bar for most young folks today, than figuring out the intricacies and mysteries of a Weber carburetor for most hotrodders of the 1950's. I hear the echoes our great-grandparents, bitching about the complexity of our grandparents' new-fangled "horseless carriages", as they're busy re-shoeing and tending to their horse.

I work in high power electronics, and thus operate a lot of very specialized test equipment. I'm old enough to not have had a large software portion to my education, we were all hardware back then. Now everytime some younger guy says, "no problem, just write a routine in Python to do that", I want to smack them. What seems like an obstacle to me is a quick and simple tool for them... but I have better caveman skills than them.

Hey get off my lawn.

lol... I guess we all get there, at some point!

 

[2manyrocks]

My Web carb was a simple bolt on installation and made the engine run so much better than the OEM.

 

[WinterDeere]

These systems are becoming so complex and requiring specialized tools/scanners to the point that even professional mechanics won't work on some of them.

One thing I've observed over the course of working on cars and production equipment over the last 40+ years, is that developing technology initially increases in complexiy as engineers find new ways to solve a particular problem, and then decreases in complexity once matured. Look at the absolute mess of vacuum hoses jammed under the hood of any mid-1980's vehicle, as engineers struggled to find new ways to meet increasing emissions standards. It's a mind-boggling mess! But by the mid-1990's, that was vastly simplified.

Likewise, modern bus systems have vastly reduced and simplified wiring, but prior to standardization, you needed specialized bus controllers and software to deal with each brand. As things mature and one protocol becomes clearly dominant, that requirement goes away, and everyone standardizes on the one that's proven best.

 

[WinterDeere]

My Web carb was a simple bolt on installation and made the engine run so much better than the OEM.

Sometimes you get lucky like that, or the prior configuration was so bad that anything feels like an improvement. But usually mounting a new carb requires re-jetting and then tuning for each engine configuration, to get it running nicely. Just change intake height or cam, and you're usually forced to dive into the finer settings on the carb. That required much more specialized equipment than a simple OBD2 tuner, really a full chassis dyno if you really wanted to get it optimized.

 

[masseyrider]

One thing I've observed over the course of working on cars and production equipment over the last 40+ years, is that developing technology initially increases in complexiy as engineers find new ways to solve a particular problem, and then decreases in complexity once matured. Look at the absolute mess of vacuum hoses jammed under the hood of any mid-1980's vehicle, as engineers struggled to find new ways to meet increasing emissions standards. It's a mind-boggling mess! But by the mid-1990's, that was vastly simplified.

I had a 1984 AMC Eagle.
I didn't notice but it had a small gas line leak which started a fire under the hood.
I caught it before it got too far.
Just burned some stuff around the base of the carb and manifold.
You could not imagine the number of vacuum lines that melted down.
It was genuinely like a plate of spaghetti. They weren't much bigger.
I took it in to the dealership and they didn't really want to do it.

 

[ultrarunner]

True, but I suspect this is a lower bar for most young folks today, than figuring out the intricacies and mysteries of a Weber carburetor for most hotrodders of the 1950's. I hear the echoes our great-grandparents, bitching about the complexity of our grandparents' new-fangled "horseless carriages", as they're busy re-shoeing and tending to their horse.

I work in high power electronics, and thus operate a lot of very specialized test equipment. I'm old enough to not have had a large software portion to my education, we were all hardware back then. Now everytime some younger guy says, "no problem, just write a routine in Python to do that", I want to smack them. What seems like an obstacle to me is a quick and simple tool for them... but I have better caveman skills than them.


lol... I guess we all get there, at some point!

Some horseless carriages are alive and well 120 years into the future…

Fully street legal and not even a brake light…

 

[hosspuller]

I have a vintage (1986) car. Learned to drive with a stick 55 years ago, Next two cars were stick, until I moved to a major metro area. The traffic required the change to automatic. The vintage car is still fun to drive vs an automatic.

 

[Oaktree]

So far as cars go, seems like the VW beetle was about $1,695 new before inflation drove the price up to $1,995 in the 1970s which today seems like a reasonable price for affordable transportation.

Never really got the appeal of the beetle. Yeah, it was a cute hippie car but rather short on amenities. No defroster, no heater to speak of, 0-60 measured in minutes. By the 70s you could get a much better-equipped car for not much more money.

 

[Oaktree]

50 years ago, maybe, 20 years ago nope. People are likely just venting their frustrations at the overpriced new cars. New cars aren't junk, but they are stupidly excessive. My Saturn has AC, AM/FM radio and air bags as the only unnecessary bling. It gets me anywhere some expensive, dumb, new rolling computer network on wheels would and gets 30+ mpg doing it. The only things close to a safety nanny are the clutch interlock switch so it can't start in gear and the seat belt chime. Contrast that with the new cars with safety nannies for EVERYTHING under the sun. Seriously, did the population really get so dumb they can't even be trusted to lock the doors correctly without a nanny's overriding supervision? Cars peaked decades ago, now they are over complicated, overpriced play stations on wheels. Will any US mfg wake up and offer a plain Jane model for the masses or will it be the 1970s all over again?

Unfortunately, I think that ship has sailed. People complain about the price and complexity of modern vehicles (and rightly so), but strippo models don't seem to sell anymore. Even those who drive modern econoboxes (Civic, corrola, etc.) seem to want all the bells and whistles.
I don't care about automatic temperature control, all the self-driving crap, blue tooth/appleplay, etc. either (though I've gotten spoiled by being able to play music off a flash drive). For the type of driving I do a stick shift would be fine. I live in northern N.H., I don't even really have any need for A/C.

 

[RobertN]

Anyone ever drive a modified "H" pattern where 3 and 4 are reversed? Drove our fire districts American LaFrance a number of times; it's a parade rig now, but was bought new by the district in '51.

 

[DK35vince]

Anyone ever drive a modified "H" pattern where 3 and 4 are reversed? Drove our fire districts American LaFrance a number of times; it's a parade rig now, but was bought new by the district in '51.

View attachment 3252992

I drove one for several years in a tri axle.
Eaton/Fuller 8 speed

 

[WinterDeere]

Never really got the appeal of the beetle. Yeah, it was a cute hippie car but rather short on amenities. No defroster, no heater to speak of, 0-60 measured in minutes. By the 70s you could get a much better-equipped car for not much more money.

My mom drove a Beetle when I was very young, probably a 1970 model with 4-speed in powder blue, I remember it well. She always claimed it was the best car she ever had for driving in snow, and in fact was the ONLY car she ever owned that could make it up the very steep driveway of one of the several properties we owned, in any weather.

 

[WinterDeere]

I drove one for several years in a tri axle.
Eaton/Fuller 8 speed
View attachment 3252995

The trouble I'd have with this, is driving stick as my daily driver for many years, I would go into autopilot and not even think about or remember what gear I was in. Muscle memory took care of that. But the odd pattern on this one seems like it would force one to have to really pay attention and always remember the gear they're in, and which direction they're headed next.

 

[DK35vince]

The trouble I'd have with this, is driving stick as my daily driver for many years, I would go into autopilot and not even think about or remember what gear I was in. Muscle memory took care of that. But the odd pattern on this one seems like it would force one to have to really pay attention and always remember the gear they're in, and which direction they're headed next.

I thought I would have that issue also, but never did.
I actually liked it, was a nice shifting transmission

 

[RobertN]

I drove one for several years in a tri axle.
Eaton/Fuller 8 speed
View attachment 3252995

I found it interesting that Eaton had pattern options like that. The GMC Topkick Water Tender that used to be at my old station was a Screaming Jimmy 8V92 with Eaton 10 spd. That 10 spd had a "normal pattern. Was fun to drive that Detroit. But it was really loud when you were parked and running the RPM's up for PTO pumping operations.

 

[Engineer42]

Anyone ever drive a modified "H" pattern where 3 and 4 are reversed? Drove our fire districts American LaFrance a number of times; it's a parade rig now, but was bought new by the district in '51.

View attachment 3252992

Yup, same one in a 49', 54', 56', and 58' LaFrance. Pic attached of the 56'. Actually, the 56' was upgraded to a 5speed in 82', still an OD.

 

[Engineer42]

The trouble I'd have with this, is driving stick as my daily driver for many years, I would go into autopilot and not even think about or remember what gear I was in. Muscle memory took care of that. But the odd pattern on this one seems like it would force one to have to really pay attention and always remember the gear they're in, and which direction they're headed next.

Then this 18 speed, or 6 speed would be worse.

 

[RobertN]

Yup, same one in a 49', 54', 56', and 58' LaFrance. Pic attached of the 56'. Actually, the 56' was upgraded to a 5speed in 82', still an OD.

In the 1960's "Alf" had the engine swapped for a 671 Detroit. Screaming Jimmy is loud, especially when wound up.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yep… Placerville California previously known as Dry Diggings and Hangtown in the heart of California gold discovery country.